After a great deal of effort I sort of went off the boil when this blogsite was invaded (destroyed?) by spamming. It sort of cools the ardor when your hard work of many hours is flooded by robots.

Now, my thanks to Chris Harpham and a delay of some years the site seems clean and useful again - but I will have to re-charge my batteries and get myself back into it. As anyone can imagine I have not stopped on my crusade for knowledge and have a lot more research to publish and my usual wry outlook on the world has not changed - just got older ...

I promise I will start moderating comments and welcome useful information and corrections - I am not perfect but will acknowledge where I am wrong quite gracefully. I have prima donna safely locked in a drawer for the time being (smile).

Just y'all get your seatbelts strapped on ...

Tom

This is a rough narrative on David I's influence on Scotland - I will need to construct a detailed time line to bring thess facts into proper perspective.

David's mother the saintly, and very religious, Margaret was the sister of Edgar Aetheling the Anglo-Saxon heir to England. After the Norman conquest the Aetheling family sought refuge in Scotland. Edgar himself seems to have had no real ambition to try and recover the throne of England and in fact seems to have been content to settle down as a reasonably influential baron around the Scottish court.

At the time the King of Scotland was Malcolm Canmore whose domain was Scotland north of the Forth and who also held sway over Lothian and from there a fluctuating hold on Northumbria. Also through dynastic marriage and inheritance he held Strathclyde which extended into Cumbria as far as the Eden River. He also held authority over much of the north-east.

These were the days of strong Celtic influence, both in the ways of business and in the church. Kings were chosen by the system of tanistry whereby alternate rulers came from a pool of family members so that there was always the current most powerful and adult ruler of the throne - kinship usually did not follow father to eldest son. The results were often bloodshed as the possible succesors did not always quietly come to the throne.

What is now known as Scotland was a loose amalgam of sub-kings and local rulers who were more often than not terrorised into supporting the strongest king of the day. I imagine that, although there were laws and there was government, it was much more rudimentary and autocratic today. Allegiances fluctuated according to who had the biggest and most efficient war-band of the day.

I say war-band as I would think that the armies of the day were relatively small and irregularly armed. I think that a relatively small posse of 50 or so sophisticated thugs supported by a small troop of horse could terrorise quite a large area of disorganised peasants in a sparsely populated country who really just wanted to be left alone to scratch a living. The over-kings obviously had the largest and most efficient war-band.

Raids on neighbours and looting were a good way to supplement an otherwise precarious living and this would pre-date the Roman occupation.

Margaret became the second wife of Malcolm Canmore. It was obviously as much a loving union as a business relationship and they had a large family. Malcolm obviously was no dunce himself and held together and consolidated his kingdom whilst Margaret busily patronised the church and introduced reforms.

Malcolm believed Northumbria was rightly part of Scotland and it was during a raid "asserting his rights" that he and his eldest son were killed by Northumbians who did not believe him.

Margaret died shortly therafter.

In the meantime a daughter Maud had married Henry I of England and the ninth child David whilst still young accompanied her to the English Court.

After Malcolm's death the tanist succession laws lead to other branches of the family seizing power. It was only the intervention of the English King and the Earl of Northumbria that reulted in the line of Malcolm being returned to the throne in the form of David's elder brother Edgar.

In the meantime David became an "Englishman" there was no reasonable prospect of him succeeding to the Scottish throne. He was obviously a firm friend and almost an adopted son of Henry I his brother in law. Henry preferred him and arranged the marriage to the widow de Senlis who was the daughter of Earl Siward of Huntingdon and heiress to Northumbria. In one blow and in right of his wife he became an English magnate of considerable substance.

King Edgar of Scotland never married and had no heirs. The next brother Alexander had children and it did not look as if David would inherit the throne of Scotland.

Bear in mind that David was now Earl of Northumbria, an area that the Scot's Kings traditionally thought was "theirs" and the area of Cumbria south of the present border was part of the See of Glasgow and still regarded as part of the Kingdom of Strathclyde that was now attached to the Scottish throne. For some centuries it seems that the Strathclyde Kingdom had been regarded as the possession of the heir-designate of Scotland - a sub-ruler who was a ruler-in-waiting. Much like it is now traditional that the heir to the British throne is made Prince of Wales.

However the position in those days was very much hands-on.

While Alexander was still King and his children were alive it seems that David gradually took possession from his lands of Northumbria of what are now the border lands of Cumbria and southern Scotland but what in those days were the rich lands of the Tweed and around both sides of the Solway Firth.

The general opinion is that David said that he was Comes of Southern Scotland by right of an inheritance from his elder brother Edgar but Alexander disagreed. The chronicles indicate that Alexader somewhat reluctantly agreed because he was intimidated by David's Norman supporters.

This process was most likely the introduction of David's Norman feudal tenant's into Northumbria and then into the valley's of Annandale, Nithsdale, Eskdale, Liddesdale and eventually as they became bolder into the Lothians, Ayrshire and Renfrew.

Alexander's children died and David became the heir to the throne of Scotland itself.

In this process Alexander obviously decided that blood ties and discretion were the best course of action.

What it was in reality was a creeping colonisation that was merely a continuation of the Norman conquest and was being fuelled by land-hungry barons and the close friendship between Henry I and his young brother-in-law who became David I.

What was planned we might never know, but Henry's son and heir was drowned in 1120. David became King of all Scotland on Alexander's death in 1124. Davis swore to Henry that he would support Henry's daughter Matilda (his cousin) as Queen of England in 1127. In 1135 Henry died and England collapsed into civil war between Matilda and Stephen.

At this time David was Earl of Huntingdon and Northumbria as well as King of all Scotland. He was descended from the Anglo-Saxon Kings of England and his cousin Matilda was his father-in-law's chosen heir. We might allow that he was probably the most powerful baron in England at the time. In the wars that followed Matilda and her supporters proved inept and David's "great host" was driven off at the Battle of the Standard. This was not so much a defeat as a stale mate and David seemed happy to take undisputed control of Cumbria and Northumbria as his reward. Technically these northern counties were on the point of becoming permanently part of Scotland and David reinforced the point by making his residence at Carlisle where no doubt he could better manage his extensive Scottish and English desmesnes.

David's son Henry took an active part in ruling the family possessions as "King-elect" and made a marriage into the powerful Warrene family. He and his children and their courts spoke French and were thoroughly part of the "Norman Establishment".

Henry was quite mature when he died but his father was still alive and King so the eldest grandson Malcolm inherited the throne. David died a year after Henry at his royal residence at Carlisle which is now in England. A more powerful king on the English throne wrested Cumbria from Malcolm and although his next brother William had been duly invested "Earl of Northumria" by David I it also was denied to him. William spent most of his life raiding Northumbria trying to wrestle back his patrimony and it was the cause of much trouble for generations until it was finally agreed by Alexander III that it was part of England.

The third brother of course was another David Earl of Huntingdon. During his elder brother's Malcolm and William David reign he was granted large tracts of Scotland mainly in the North East as the process of feudalisation by "Norman" fmailies changed the ways of Celtic government. Norman family might marginalised the tanist claims to the throne and the frequent rebellions from the McWilliam and McHeth lines and was also used to finally subdue Galloway to the King's personal authority. It was in this time that Henry of Brechin, a natural son of this Earl David brought the Huntingdon coat of arms to Brechin. The same Earl David endowed Lindores Abbey in Fife on the south side of the Tay estuary. This might have been the time and cause of the introduction of the Caldwell ancestor from Huntingdon into Fife - but he may or may not have been called "a Caldwell".

These were turbulent times and you can imagine that the family of David I, of his son Henry and gandson's Malcolm "the Maiden", William "the Lion" and David Earl of Huntingdon were through and through a French-speaking Norman-feudal family and completely disinterested in the Celtic background of Scotland. Their power came form the backing of armoured knights on horseback and strong castles. That power backing was rewarded by territorial grants of land to those that supported them.

The Celtic tanist claiments to the throne of Scotland gave the McMalcolm dynesty insurrections and problems for generations before they were finally brutally put to rest.

We can clearly see from this why the Kings of England thought that the Scots-Kings were sub-kings subject to their overlordship - after all they might be thought to be more Norman-English than Scots and they owed their throne to support of the English King and (largely) Norman-English opportunists and their military might.

When it came to the crunch the Bruce remembered his Scottish roots - as much through Marjorie of Carrick as from the Bruce line - and it was the invocation of Celtic nationality that finally saw the country become a true nation and secured its independent identity through the vicious Wars of Independence. It was a close run thing and Scotland could easily have become part of England in the time before people thought themselves a nation and nations were really those that were loyal to a particular royal family.

This period from Malcolm Canmore to William the Lion and through to Alexander III is very important to the Caldwell family in Scotland as it covers the period of feudalisation and the emergence of surnames. The government was regularised and new institutions introduced. What our ancestors were doing then remains to be discovered.

Tom

The early Scottish history is generally accepted around the lines that an English Knight or Ecclesiastic came ot Scotland in the time of David I (the first Earl of Huntingdon from the Scottish Royal family) and that the progenitor of the family already had the surname "Caldwell" before arriving as a supporter of either an early Stewart or with de Morville.

This seems quite feasible as there are still many of the Caldwell name living in the midlands of England who could be remotely connected to those Caldwell's who left for Scotland. There is also a "Caldwell" in Yorkshire and more than one in the midlands. Other "Caldwell" villages havd disappered and there are similar names that could have given a name to the family.

This is to assume that our name has been derived from a place-name.

"Caldwell" is one of those names that could have been sourced from many roots and it is not absolutely set in concrete that it comes from one or more village locations -although I do accept that this is the most probable reasoning.

I have recently found that "Normans" entering Scotland during its feudalisation period were more than likely to bring a surname with them that reflected their historic roots. However there were a very high proportion of Flemings that also settled in Scotland who have also been classified as "Normans". Some of these Flemings were scions of families that had helped William the Conqueror and had gained lands in England and like the true Norman and other French adventurers saw helping David I and his immediate successors as a way of getting further property rather than becoming "Scots". However it is not generally known that the Fleming's relationship with Scotland was always strong because of the connection through wool and that their connections with England waxed and waned depending upon whose side the people of Flanders were on during the incessant strife between England and France.

At one stage the English banned all trade with Flanders and made life difficult for the Flemish in England thereby driving many Flemish people into Scotland. These Flemish often did not have surnames and took their surnames from the properties that they occupied in Scotland - more so than the Normans.

Consequently early deeds referring to Flemings only refer to them as "son of" this was a continuation of general practice but perhaps the Flemish Knights did not have ancient proprties of their famlilies to have been "of" anywhere. They may have also have moved about rendering service to this and that lord without having that "fixed ancestral address".

What this is leading to is the very distinct possibility that "Caldwell" on the Renfrew border was a place-name that existed before it had a lord of the same name. After all there are quite a lot of Caldwell places around Britain and southern Scotland had English-speaking settlers from Northumbria and Bernicia had influence there from very early days. The Caldwell that I refer to is not a village like those in England but I think it may have been a district or parish or thanage of that name and covering a fairly large area joining the upper valleys of the Leven and Cart Rivers and controlling the routes between Renfrew and Ayrshire.

The people from this area might have been "of Caldwell" to later generations. This would help explain the number of Caldwell's springing from this location but not those further south in Ayrshire unless they were transplanted there by the Stewart family and the monks of Paisley Abbey.

This theory says that the first knight "of Caldwell" may have been a Fleming who took up the district name as his own. It also says that families from that region used Caldwell as a surname and may well have been the feudal tenants of the Knight of Caldwell - who may well have been a "More" ab initio.

The arms of Caldwell of that Ilk were borne as far as I know by the Gudeman of the Hall of Little Caldwell but may have been carried through from an earlier, more important, member of the family who has been lost in the mists of time. The arms, I have discovered, seem to be a colour-based distinction of the personal arms of the Earl of Huntingdon and also seem to be very much associated with Fife by their black and white difference.

The Earl of Huntingdon's arms seem to have become associated via the Huntingdon specifically with Brechin. In the light of what I have read of the territorial basis of Scottish coats of arms I think that the "three piles" motif shrieks "Fife-Angus" too strongly to be ignored.

This is where the fact that I have topped the rise and seen a new direction has only meant that I am now confounded by another set of obstacles.

I think the accepted matriculated coat of arms of Caldwell of that Ilk says quite clearly that the family arrived in Renfrew via Fife and not directly from England.

However what the family was or how they are connected to Fife is the next mystery. Finding when the arms were matriculated should be possible and the grant of matriculation may give some further assistance.

This is to presume that this information is available. The records of the Lyon Court were appropriated by Edward I to England and lost at sea when being returned generations later. Furthermore there have been other problems such as a fire causing loss of information. I have read that many families applied for re-matriculation of their arms at a later date aftre they were lost. Most of the early arms currently known seem to come from independently sourced "arm's lists".

Therefore it is more than possible that we only have Nisbett's list for our source and that does not necessarily help us much as Nisbett seemed to think that the piles signified marshy ground and the waves signified water relative to the name. This is a device-punning association for the arms, and whilst very possibly correct, completely ignores the modern research that clearly demonstrates the territorial-basis of the devices on Scottish family arms.

My money currently is on "Fife" but I would be happy to be proved wrong - happier to be proved right.

Tom

Useful "Piles" references for Scotland:

Pye, Roger, "Development of the Pile in Certain Graham Arms" Coat of Arms, NS vol. 3, p. 147 (1978-80)

· Pye, Roger, "Evolution of the Arms of Douglas of Lochleven" Coat of Arms, NS vol. 3, p. 76 (1978-80)

· Pye, Roger, "Genuine Piles in Scottish Coats" Coat of Arms, NS vol. 6, p. 229 (1984-86)

· Pye, Roger, "Heraldry of Clan MacThomas" Coat of Arms, vol. 10, p. 147 (1968-69)

· Pye, Roger, "More Pseudo Piles in Scottish Coats" Coat of Arms, NS vol. 5, p 124 (1982-84)

http://www.theheraldrysociety.com/publications/c_o_a.htm

Can anyone help get some details of these articles?

I am a Caldwell, born Kilmarnock, but a long time resident of Australia. I am a keen historian and family history adds colour to it rather more than the personal quest for my family tree.

Our family is traditionally from the Renfrew/Ayrshire border although I have noted with great interest the very ancient distribution of the Caldwell name in Kyle Stewart as well as the Beith-Kilbarchan axis.

In fact Caldwell's seem to have originally conformed precisely to the early location of the Stewart family before its royal associations.

This is strictly South West Ayrshire/Renfrew and does not seem to extend to the other known Stewart areas. Popular belief has it that the name means "Cold-water" but I have my reservations about this - however that is another story. The family is also supposed to have come to Scotland either with the first Stewarts (FitzAlan's) or in the train of de Morville.

The family is also supposed to have its principal property of "Caldwell" transferred into the Mure/More family by a marriage of Gilchrist More to a Caldwell Heiress in the early 1300's. About the same time the Family gave the country a Chancellor for a few years in the form of Willam Caldwell. My guess that he might have been a very old William of Eaglesham who gets a good run in the history of the Wars of Independence.

I read with interest the extemely valuable article on your site: "Some Distinctive Characteristics of Scots Arms By Alex Maxwell Findlater"

On the basis of this article and the location of the Caldwell family one might expect that the arms of "Caldwell of that Ilk" have some reference to the Stewart family.

The arms do not have any similarity and the principal device is argent three piles sable. The three piles motif is reasonably rare and immediately refers one to the arms of the Earl of Huntingdon (and the Bissetts). These arms have different colours but the differences may well be part of a territorial series of arms as per Findlater's article. Looking further we find that the arms of Wishart are also similar and we know that the Wishart's were strongly connected to Glasgow, furthermore if a Caldwell had been Chancellor then there is every possibility that he was an ecclesiastic and also that he was connected to Glasgow.

I also note that three piles sable are on the arms of families from Fife and Angus - ranging from the Lochore family to Anstruther and Lovell of Ballumbie (Dundee). Oher families form this region bearing similar arms include Hacket/Halkett, Young, Laing - enough to determne that the arms appear to be territorial with the sable variety in Fife to the Tay and other colourations north through Angus to Brechin. I note also the quartering of three piles in the arms Douglas of Loch Leven and the three piles of the Lord of Jedforest.

The object of this discourse is to say that following Findlater's arguments it would appear that the armigerous Caldwell's of that Ilk came to Renfrew via Fife and not straight into Scotland from England. It would also seem to indicate that perhaps the Caldwell name was only adopted from the place name of its seat and not used prior to Renfrew. This might also indicate that the family was Flemish in origin.

In an effort to find this proto-Caldwell I really need to know just how ancient the arms of Caldwell of that Ilk are. If the arms are not truly ancient then my theory will fall in a heap. Furthermore it seems to me that the reason that the Stewart chequy fesse did not make it into the Caldwell arms are the connection to the Earl of Huntingdon. If this is so then the early arms of Caldwell were "more noble" than the early arms of "Stewart" and therefore there was no seen need to incorporate a Stewart device into those of Caldwell of that Ilk.

My query is: how do I determine the antiquity of these arms? and how do I find proper confirmation of my theory that the arms are Scottish territorial to Fife and/or Angus.

Tom Caldwell

This is a post I have made to a site on Scottish Heraldry and is also placed here for the record - I will be interested in any positive response and will keep all Caldwell's posted.

http://heraldry-scotland.com/HSSforum/viewforum.php?f=6

Statement of facts:

1) It is believed that Caldwell comes from "Cold-water" and it is an English name.

2) It is also thought that the Caldwell's came to Scotland either with the early Stewart's or in the train of de Moreville.

3) The More/Mure family came into the property of Caldwell in the mid 1300's by the marriage of an heiress. (I use More and Mure interchangeably as there seems to be some confusion over the spelling over the years).

Comment on the last "fact" - this comes from Nisbett "it is 'said' that the More family obtained the property of Caldwell by the marriage of Gilchrist More to 'an heiress'". ie: heresay. Furthermore I don't recollect that it was necessarily said "a Caldwell heiress". However Nisbett was much better informed than I and I am not disputing what he said but just cautioning that it is easy to take a mere "informed comment", make it a "fact", and also assume that it was a Caldwell heiress.

Even after the More family became proprietors of the Caldwell property the "Hall of Little Caldwell" was close by and always regarded as the residence of Caldwell of that Ilk. Consequently the Caldwell's of Caldwell (if they ever existed - and that is not a proven fact) finished with an heiress in the mid-1300's and "of that Ilk" was (and always was) a completely separate line. ie: the name passed on through another line of the family when the senior male line became extinct. This happens with most families and often frequently - we are no exception.

I think that we can therefore dismiss any notion that the current family of Caldwell's has any connection whatsoever with the property of Caldwell in Scotland that was the ancestral home of the More/Mure family from the 1300's. If we have any connection to the area it is through "Caldwell of that Ilk" of "Little Caldwell". ... but wait - there is more! It is recorded that the line of Caldwell of that Ilk (of Little Caldwell) died out sometime in the late 1600's or early 1700's!

The estates of that Caldwell were forfeited after the 1666 Pentland Hills rising (specifically the "Chitterflat Incident") and Caldwell of that Ilk fled overseas. Last heard of in the USA - I have said it before that the US researchers should be beavering away - one of you might be the current day head of the clan!

Consequently the "heiress" of the "big house" became a More/Mure and the guy in the "gatekeeper's cottage" disappears after having his hand smacked for being naughty.

There is "More". It is a convention (not always used) that where a Scottish man marries and heiress and thereby obtains her father's wealth by her right that he changes his surname to hers. The Hunters of Hunterston are an example where a Caldwell changed his name to Hunter when he married the heiress. In the mid-1300's surnames were still being adopted but I think that the practice might have been established that far back.

At the time the More family were "More's of Polkelly" - a not insignificant property on the Moorland country near Fenwick half way between Glasgow and Kilmarnock. The also had property at Abercorn in the Lothians. It is recognised that "Caldwell" became the main line with precedence over the other More properties of Rowallan, Cowdams and Glanderston. If this was a big step up in the world for the More's and it was through marriage to an heiress then why didn't young Gilchrist adopt "Caldwell" as a family name?

Of course the More family were quite important in their own right and gave the country a Chamberlain about this time "Sir Reginald" and a Queen to Robert II. They were reputed to have become the wealthiest family in Scotland and perhaps their landholdings at Caldwell contributed to this. The Caldwell's are reputed to have been "kinfolk" but any recorded connections seem obscure.

So we throw out the Caldwell associations with the properties of Caldwell (so please stop blethering on about them Even if they have something to do with the surname we have nothing to do with them unless it is from the wrong side of the blanket. It is merely convenient that many Caldwell's are found in the area.

[as a side issue the mullets on a bend on the More/Mure arms seem to indicate a connection in the territorial sense to Moray. The Murray family of Moray are descended from a Fleming named Freskin who was planted in Moray but apparently came from Ayrshire. Amongst other things Freskin was responsible for the construction of Galdwell Castle in Moray. There is a possibility that More/Mure was an alternative spelling for someone from Moray ie: Mor-eh or Mur-eh pronunciation is quite possible from the French-speaking elite of the day.]

My theory is that the whole border area over the hills fromt the Cart valley to the Leven was known as the district of Caldwell and the site of the manor of Caldwell was only a happenstance that has become a focus point because it is a pinprick on the map with a name. "Caldwell Country" is apparently used to this day.

Having an area rather than a property might explain why there are far more Caldwell's around than a couple of properties of that name might explain. (Not even a village in Scotland). No other local farms seem to have been the source of famiy names (How about "Mr Bogside"? or even "Mr Auchengowan"?)

Another interesting fact is that both Auchengowan near Lochwinnoch and Dalmilling near Ayr were given to the Gilbertine order of Sempringham (specifically Sixhills Priory) by the Stewarts. Both failed after a short time and were taken over by the monks of Paisley.

I have already listed somewhere a number of Caldwell's who were the leader's of religious institutions in the English Midlands in the 1200's.

It is a known fact that Auchengowan was an important Caldwell property right down to modern times. All around Auchengowan are other Caldwell farms opposite Lochwinnoch. In fact I would make a fairly accurate guess that the Caldwell's from Beith through to Kilbarchan are much thicker on the ground than the Caldwell's in the Leven valley.

It goes further - a cemetary inscription indicates that the farm of Dalmilling was a Caldwell property in the 1600's. We also know that Caldwell farms abound on the south side of the River Irvine in Kyle Stewart. This is of course early Stewart lands and the centre of the desmesne of the first Stuart Kings. Dalmilling near Ayr is at the end of an arc of property that runs from there around to Kilmarnock (where I was born). Add this to the known early presence of Caldwell's at Dalmellington in the Doon valley and Coylton in-between and we have a significant presence of Caldwell's in an area associated with the Stewarts.

Yet another "clue" is Crossraguel Abbey also founded by the monks of Paisley. On the lands of the Abbey we have Caldwellstoun - not a village, but a ferm-town.

I will have to check but either Nigel or Duncan of Carrick married a Stewart sister and we have Stewart's everywhere that our Caldwell ancestor's show up. We also have Paisley monks showing up in the same places and we have some connection to the Gilbertines of Sixhills Priory as well.

Before I go (this is getting too hard to digest) I might also mention: Caldwellstoun must have been in a forest when it was established - it is pretty well wooded today if my map is any judge - timber supplies were very valuable. Much of the upland area of the high country that was "Caldwell" comprises the "Forest of Fireneze" or "Blackhall" - another valuable source of wood - were our early Caldwell kin foresters?

I recently read a very interesting article on the internet - I have made and earlier post about it and it is time for a re-visit.

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/distinctive.html

This is by Alex Maxwell Findlater and I think that everyone interested in family origins in Scotland should read it.

Much is made about coats of arms showing family relationships and no doubt that this does happen by quartering and sometimes by amalgamating devices. The chequy fesse of the Stewarts seemed to mean that much of the South West families were derived form a Stewart ancestor and if one could not be found then one should be made up eg: Boyd. Similarly the adoption of the Saltire by many families might show some real marital exploits by the Bruce family.

Mr Findlater states very persuasively that the devices on Scottish shields were territorial and probably showed allegience ties. This make a lot of sense in a skirmish of partisans when if you are seperated from your "mates" and at least you know that all the "chequy-fesse" guys are on your side even if some of the other detail is not so familiar. So it seems a common-sense military precaution but it would also be like wearing the "team-colours" when you turn up to the tournament or any other situation where "pomp and circumstance" is the watchword of the day. Nothing like a shield-wall of colour with the continuing theme running through it for a bit of forceful negotiating. Gun-boat diplomacy was discovered before gunboats were inveted.

Seems like the Caldwell's were pretty close to the early Stewart's so we might expect a "chequy fesse" in there on "our" shield as well .... WRONG! No sign of a Stewart connection at all!

One might wonder why a family that seems sourced around the Stewarts and has had reason to be part of their clique not to have hitched their star to the family, as others have, by adopting and "allied" device on their arms. the commonality seems to be that "chequy fesse".

This can only mean to me that the Caldwell of that Ilk arms were in existence before the Stewart's started their rise to individual prominence. ie: at the time that Caldwell family branch adopted arms their connections were elsewhere.

So where were the connections?

Look at the arms - the most prominent part is the three piles issuing from the chief.

Look for other familes in Scotland that use a similar device and we are drawn irresistably into Angus and Fife.

The Caldwell colours are sable on argent (black on white) the other families with this colour are mainly Fife and across the Tay to Dundee. Gules on Argent (red on white)are Wisharts from Brechin and Gules on Or (Red on Yellow)are from Brechin also and relate to descent from Henry, Lord Brechin who was a natural son of David of Huntingdon, King William's younger brother (and the then Royal family).

It all gets "very exciting" and opens a whole treasure house for further research.

I have always thought that we would run out of family-name if we went back far enough and we would have to find a proto-Caldwell who wasn't called "Caldwell". I am of the opinion that the "district of Caldwell" was as much an area as "Cunningham" was to the south and "Strath-Gryfe" part of Renfrew and "the Mearns" was a district near Glasgow. It is not beyond possibility that the landholder introduced to this area took on a "district-name" as surname within a generation of being granted the land.

This exercise is the pursuit of our proto-Caldwell whose surname was not regarded as significantly-established enough to be adopted by the More family if indeed they married a Caldwell heiress.

I have it on good authority (references to the work of Beryl Platts) that black and white were the colours of Alost Province in Flanders. I have also noted that the early Flemings seemed to use personal names for longer than those of Norman background who seemed to settle into surnames sometime earlier. However I am also unable to find any Flemish coats of arms using "piles" as a device despite the same authority saying that they were "common" in Flemish Heraldry - any help I can get in this area will be more than appreciated because at the moment that line of research has ended at a very uninteresting brick wall.

Furthermore I am also aware of the quite common Caldwell surname in the Midlands of England and as a placename in Yorkshire. I also remember that there seems to be a strong ecclesiastical connection between Caldwell and the two locations. These issues are not discounted nor are they over-ruled but for the time being I am pusrsuing the territorial-arms connection.

Note very well that I am not saying in any way that because arms are similar then there is family rleationship. This is not what Findlater is saying - he is showing that the similarities are more related to allegience and territorial origin than necessarily to bloodline connection.

It has been thought that the Caldwell's simply moved up from England and settled around Paisley. The evidence of the arms is that they were present in Fife and Angus when the arms were devised and had another allegience at that time and that was not Stewart.

[For my theories to "work" the "Caldwell Arms" have to be very ancient - this opens up a new area to be mined - we must find out when these arms were granted - given that Edward I made off with most of the Scottish records and they were susequently lost at sea we can only assume that they were part of the subsequent re-granting of original arms - if they are the arms granted in more recent times then I have been wasting my energies as my whole argument falls in a heap]

Before I go further I should note that the piles are also sometimes rendered as "Passion Nails".

Lets look closer: Three piles coloured red on a background of yellow were the arms of the Earls of Huntingdon and were borne by David, Earl of Huntingdon and his legitimate son John le Scot who later became Earl of Chester as well. They were also the arms of David's natural son Henry of Brechin and his descendents and presumably the arms of all of those of the direct family of the Earls of Huntingdon. Further research into this would be very interesting. I note that the Bissett family of Huntingdon has a shield in the same colours with differences presumably denoting a close connection to the Earls of Huntingdon.

Findlater allows differences in colours using the same devices to denote associations. Consequently the Wishart's of Brechin use red on white and from their line we also have other families quartering the Wishart arms into their own most notably the Erskine family that are found both in Angus and in Renfrew. Notably the Wishart's were very strongly connected to Glasgow and St Andrews as well as the original connections in Angus through Brechin.

Significantly the Wishart's were originally partisans of the Comyn's but later converted to strong support for Bruce. Above all they were patriots.

Move a bit further south in Angus and we meet the Lovell's of Ballumbie who were conencted to Dundee - they not only have three black piles on white but have "three waves" in the chief that might allude similarly to the red and white waves on the Caldwell arms.

Across the Tay into Fife and we have a welter of black piles on white background:

Anstruther - plainly so, but also Lochore (a strong Comyn partisan). Others that may have a Fife connection are Young of Auldbar and Laing. There is an Aldbar castle near Brechin but I have not established whether this is the same as the Young's "Auldbar". Another Young was connected to "Rosebank" and there is a "Rosebank" not too far from Kilconquhar and Anstruther - but it might not be the "right Rosebank".

Add this to the piles in the arms of Douglas of Loch Leven (next to Lochore - it might be a family relationship thing) and it appears that Angus-Fife is the territorial origin of the "three piles" connection in Scotland and it, in turn, derives form a connection with the Earls of Huntingdon. It also should be mentioned for completeness that David, Earl of Huntingdon had "the Lennox" for a short while before he became involved more around Brechin and Garioch - he also founded Lindores Abbey on the south-side of the Tay and not that far from Caldwells farm near Collessie in Fife.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=327500&y=715500&z=3&sv=327500,715500&st=4&ar=N&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf&ax=326500&ay=713500

Pan down one screen from the link for Caldwells Farm - it is that close.

The evidence in the arms is that the first Caldwell to be granted arms was a close adherent of David Earl of Huntingdon. That he had connections to Huntingdon before Scotland. That the grant of arms was at about the time when the property holdings were based around Dundee or in Fife and that they were in the "Comyn party". At a later stage the family obtained patronage from the Stewart family and prospered in the South-west. Because they already had an existing coat of arms at that time there was not augmentation by Stewart devices. The association with the royal house with a Huntingdon device would have been seen as a higher association even when they were receiving patronage from the Stewarts - we would have been a "proud" family pre-dating the Stewart preferment.

I should also note that the Orr family of around the same geographical locations as the Caldwell's are found also has three black piles on its shield but, with respect to both the Orr's and the Caldwell's, this is more likely to signify an inter-marriage situation as these families are connected (many times).

The "Lord of the Jedforest" which passed to the Douglas family as a quartering also used three (and sometimes four) piles and is another area worthy of research as it is coming form outside the territorial area of Fife/Angus and might be the exception that proves the rule. An even earlier ancestor of the Fife shields perhaps.

Before I leave the subject I should return to the "Passion Nails". None of the English Caldwell sets of arms has "Piles" so that might mean that they were adopted quite independently from those in Scotland. The Earls of Huntingdon used their red piles on yellow both in Huntingdon and in Scotland. We might therefore expect that a family with close allegience or even blood ties to the Earls of Huntingdon would have had their black piles organised well before they rode up to Scotland.

Perhaps they had: Back to the Passion Nails - take the two outermost passion-nails and lie them on their sides points inwards - what do we have - "a cross patte-fitche" or a Maltese Cross sharpened at the foot sometime apparently known as the Cross de Malthe Caldwell or the "Cross of Cadwallader". This is the best-known English Caldwell shield.

Examples of signatories to the Charters of William the Lion of Scotland:

Example:
Ricardo de Morevill Constabularo
Alano Dapifero [Stewart]
Willelmo de Morevill [de Moreville]
Rannulfo de Sol [de Soules of Liddesdale]
Geruasio Aunel [Avenel of Eskdale]
Bernado filio Brien [Brien's have simlar arms to Caldwell - different colour though]
Waltero de Windesh
Thoma de Colev [Colville "le Scot" of Dalmellington]

Jocelino archdiacono Dunkeldensi
Willelmo priore de Fostynoth
Radulfo capallano meo
Ricardo prebenda clerico meo
comise Dunecano [Count Duncan of Carrick]
comise Gilberto [Count Gilbert of Galloway?]
Willelmo de Lyndes
Roberso de Londoniis [King William's natural son]
Malcolmo filio comitis Dunecani [Malcolm son of Count Duncan]
Johanne de Hasting [Married a daughter of David Earl of Huntingdon (William's younger brother)? - might have my generations confused)
Willelmo Cumyn [Comyn]
Willelmo de Hays
Geriasio Auenel
Thoma de Colleuil

Willelmo de Lindes
Geruasio Auenil
Johanne de Hasting
Willelmo Cumin
Thoma de Coleuill
Henrico Biset [Bissets also had similar arms to the Caldwell's - actually the "same" as the Earl of Huntingdon]
Alexandro de Sintun [Seaton]
Willelmo de Herizg
Philippo de Lundin

Now have found a whole horde of places and names with similar arms north of Queensferry:

Dunfermline-Cowdenbeath-Lochore-Loch Leven as the core area
Also further East Kilconquhar-Anstruther
North in area surrounding Dundee

Names: Anstruther (East Fife), Hackett/Halket, Lovell (Dundee), Young, Henderson, Laing, Orr, Latta - the last two have not been sourced to an area but Orr seems to be in similar areas to Caldwell and may just be related to Caldwell.

Laing of Redhouse - arms are Argent, three piles Sable.
Same as Anstruther and Lochore.

The Lochore family were sherrifs of Fife and of Perth.
Lochore is sometimes spelled Lochquhar. It was also known as "Innisgall".

There are a number of Redhouse's but the one in Fife is "just accross the paddock" (no more than one mile) from Lochore and seemingly "the Redhouse" that the Laing with similar arms ot Lochore belongs to. Either "very territorial" or a strong family relationship.

[Of the several other Redhouse Farms:
1) Aberdeen nr Old Meldrum
2) Aberdeen (remoe) in Garioch
3) Argyll sw of Tarbert
4) Dumfries nr Gretna
are less likely contenders (because I said so - smile)

There is a Redhouse Castle between Longniddry and Ballencrief in the Lothians that could also stake a very strong claim to have been the landed property of "Laing of Redhouse". The Redhouuse in Fife fits more comfortably with my argument but the Castle in Lothian is not necessarily the end of it as the Laing family may have relocated as I have argued for Caldwell]

Anstruther is on the coast and further east.

Sinificantly the progenators of the Anstruther (William de Candela)and Lochore (?) families took their names from their properties rather than from other sources. In the South West of Scotland this doe not seem to have happened. However if the family that settled at Caldwell were from Fife then it is possible that they did in fact take their name from the property "Caldwell". This is despite my earlier arguments to the contrary. Consequently we may still be able to find the proto-Caldwell.

There is an article referenced on the "web":
GWS Barrow - "The origins of the family of Lochore" in Scottish Historical Review 77, 1998 p252

Barrow's thoughts would make interesting reading in the light of my coments here.

I also note that Marjorie of Carrick's first husband: Adam of Kilconquhar was also from Fife. Adam died on his way to the Holy Land on crusade. They had not been married long. Her second husband of course was the father of their son "Robert the Bruce".

Adam of Kilconquhar became Adam of Carrick in right of his wife. Before he headed off on his fatal quest he seems to have spent a bit of time deputising for Alexander of Buchan as Justicar of Scotland. In a judgement at Pitcorthie (modern Carnbee in Fife) on 4 October 1266 one of the witnesses was William of Fordell - yet another who carried the "three piles" on his arms.

Sir David of Lochore was also acting as a Justicar at about the same time and on 13 October 1260 gave a judgement at Perth in concert with Sir Freskin Murray and Sir Johnn Cameron performing the office of the earl of Buchan, justicar of Scotia.

[References GWS Barrow - "The Kingdom of the Scots" p79]

I have not seen an example of the arms of Adam of Kilconquhar becore he became Earl of Carrick.

Not connected but noted here: there was an Adam Colvyl and two Thomas Colvyl's on the Ragman's Roll for Ayrshire - no Caldwell's.

There is evidence to indicate that the Scottish Caldwell coat of arms contains the same device as a number of other families in Scotland and some in England. It is not a common device in heraldry. The strongest connection is to the Arms of the Earls of Huntingdon (Or, three Piles Gules) - originally David I of Scotland but more well known as the arms of David Earl of Huntingdon who was the younger brother of Malcolm IV and William the Lion. David came up to Scotland when his elder brother's were kings and was granted lands in Lennox (for a short while) then in Garioch, Angus and Fife. He took part in military campaigns against the king's enemies in Scotland. He spent enough time in Fife to found Lindores Abbey in Fife on the south side of the Tay. [Not far from Lindores near Collessie there is a farm known as "Caldwells". Caldwell is not known as a "Fife name".]

David had several natural sons one was Henry of Brechin who had as his arms the same arms as the Earl of Huntingdon. These arms became associated with Brechin in Angus.

The Wishart's from Brechin had arms: Argent, three Piles Gules and these arms found their way into the arms of other families in the region including Douglas, Erskine, Polwarth, Bratrus(?), Visschet(?) and Sleich. The Wishart family took these arms to Glasgow and St Andrews.

Further south the colours change to: Argent, three Piles Sable. The first encountered are Young of Aldbar if indeed this "Aldbar" is the Aldbar Castle just south of Brechin, but more likely Lovell of Ballumbie which is at Dundee. The Lovell arms also have "three waves" - another characteristic of the Caldwell arms.

Crossing the Tay into Fife we have a whole welter of arms with the plain: Argent, three Piles Sable - same colours, same layout as the Caldwell arms but without the Caldwell augmentation of "waves" Notable are the group of families around Lochore: Douglas of Loch Leven, Hacket/Halkett (colours reversed) near Cowdenbeath, Lochore itself, Henderson, perhaps Laing and also in the general area: Anstruther and Young.

Logan of Restalrig takes these arms to Edinburgh itself and "Lord of the Jedforest" raises the "three piles" in the borders region.

Outwith Scotland the "three piles" seem fairly scarce: the Earl of Huntingdon is the most prominent and obvious example - these arms were the same as the Bisset family of Huntingdon before they came to Scotland and also were carried by the Wrottesley family and notably by the Brien family in differenced colours. Breichinge amy well be a spelling of Brechin or one of the various early spellings of Brien.

The only continental family with three piles I have yet found is Chauderon (de la Ferte) who seem to have come from the area around Nevers/Dornes in the department of Nievre. The family seems to have connections to the Bourbonais and "de Blois" and "sr de Toesny" are bandied about. Looks like a whole new spectrum of research - might evn be some pirates inthere yet :)

Tom

I have always wondered whether this guy was our proto-Caldwell.

Reference: The Acts of William I, King of Scots 1165-1214
Book by G. W. S. Barrow; Edinburgh University Press, 1971

Thomas de Colville was arrested in May, 1210, charged with treason, and imprisoned in Edinburgh castle; he ransomed himself on 30 November ( Chron. Melrose, 54). He was presumably Thomas de Colville, surnamed 'the Scot', lord of Carsphairn in Galloway, a dependent of Duncan of Carrick.

died 1219

l.48 Ricardo Cumin. Philippo de Coleuilla

[Latin spelling =Colville or =Caldwell?]

Witness to many charters of William I.

Example:
Ricardo de Morevill Constabularo
Alano Dapifero
Willelmo de Morevill
Rannulfo de Sol
Geruasio Aunel
Bernado filio Brien
Waltero de Windesh
Thoma de Colev

Jocelino archdiacono Dunkeldensi
Willelmo priore de Fostynoth
Radulfo capallano meo
Ricardo prebenda clerico meo
comise Dunecano
comise Gilberto
Willelmo de Lyndes
Roberso de Londoniis
Malcolmo filio comitis Dunecani
Johanne de Hasting
Willelmo Cumyn
Willelmo de Hays
Geriasio Auenel
Thoma de Colleuil

Willelmo de Lindes
Geruasio Auenil
Johanne de Hasting
Willelmo Cumin
Thoma de Coleuill
Henrico Biset
Alexandro de Sintun
Willelmo de Herizg
Philippo de Lundin

Obvious variations in spelling in the charters from modern versions but it is a long bow to take Coleuill to Caldwell.

This was the fellow who was surnamed "le Scot" and was important enough to be on 13 charters in this book along with other persons of note - often the same people.

He was from Carphairn in Galloway and a dependent of Duncan of Carrick. Earl Duncan was a native Scot and not a Norman so there might be something in the fact that Thomas Colville might have been called "le Scot" to distinguish him from his conntemporary Philip de Colville who may well have been of Norman ancestry.

Thomas Colville le Scot was also granted Dalmellington at some stage - this holds well with his vassalage to Duncan of Carrick. It also shows a base at Carsphairn in Galloway which helps with the "Caldwell Legend".

He is signing charters with the de Morevilles and may well have been associated with them as well and therefore getting pretty close to Caldwell on the Renfrew border.

No flames but just a little smoke. Will keep looking.

Caldewell

ARMS: ..Argent (silver), on a fess dancetty Sable (black), three conger eels' heads erased and erect of the first (i.e., silver).

Caldwall of Alston, co. Stafford, England

NOTE: ..Confirmed to RALPH CALDWALL, of that place, by Wriothesley, Garter, and Benolte, Clarenceux.

ARMS: ..Argent (silver), on a fess dancetty between three lozenges longways Gules (red), as many whales' heads erect and erased Or (gold).

CREST: ..A cock's head Argent (silver), beaked, combed and wattled Gules (red), between two wings expanded Sable (black), holding in the beak a cross paty fitchy Or (gold).

Caldwell of Caldwell, Scotland

ARMS: ..Argent (silver), three piles issuing from the chief Sable (black), and in base four bars waved Gules (red) and Vert (green).

.

Caldwell

NOTE: ..Col. HUGH CALDWELL, 1838.

Arms as the preceding, the piles charged with as many hunting horns Or (gold).

CREST: ..Issuing out of a mural crown Or (gold), a dexter arm in armour the hand holding a sword in bend all Proper (natural color).

MOTTO: ..FAC ET SPERA...(Do and hope).

.

Caldwell of Linley Wood, co. Stafford England

ARMS: ..Quarterly, 1st and 4th, per pale Sable (black) and Vert (green), a stag's head couped Argent (silver), in chief three cold wells Proper (natural color), for CALDWELL; 2nd and 3rd, Argent (silver), two bars Azure (blue), on a canton Gules (red), a gauntlet grasping a broken sword Proper (natural color), hilt and pommel gold, for STAMFORD.

CREST: ..A lion Vert (green), holding between the paws a cold well Proper (natural color).

MOTTO: ..NITI, FACERE, EXPERIRI...(To strive, to do, is to experience).

.

Caldwell of Newbury, co. Berks, England

ARMS: ..Paly wavy of six Or (gold) and Sable (black), on a chevron Gules (red) ,three griffins' heads erased of the first (i.e., gold).

.

Caldwell

NOTE: ..Sir JAMES LILLYMAN CALDWELL, G.C.B.; a Lt-General in the Indian army and Chief Engineer of the Madras Presidency.

ARMS: ..Or (gold), three piles meeting in the centre fess point Sable (black), in base barry wavy alternately Gules (red), of the field (i.e., gold) and Vert (green), surmounted by a portcullis of the second (i.e., black); on the center pile suspended by a ribband, orange, a representation of the medal presented to Sir J.L. CALDWELL, in commemoration of his services at the storming of Seringapatam, with the word "SERINGAPATAM" underneath gold, the whole within a bordure embattled of the third (i.e., red).

CREST: ..Out of an eastern crown Or (gold), a demi lion Gules (red), holding in the dexter paw a sword Proper (natural color) ,pommel and hilt gold, supporting between the paws two flags staves in bend sinister the one being that of the union flag of Great Britain, surmounting the other with the staff broken, being a flag swallow-tailed Vert (green), semy of mullets Argent (silver).

MOTTO: ..VIRTUS ET SPES.

SUPPORTERS: ..On the dexter a grey horse supporting in bend a flag swallow-tailed Vert (green), semy of mullets Argent (silver), the staff broken Proper (natural color); on the sinister royal tiger of Tippoo Sultan Vert (green), striped, ducally gorged and chained Or (gold), supporting in the bend sinister a flag swallow-tailed Vert (green), semy of mullets Argent (silver).

.

Caldwell of London and Worcestershire, England

ARMS: ..Azure (blue), a cross formy fitchy between ten estoiles Or (gold).

CREST: ..A cock's head between two wings expanded Argent (silver), combed and wattled Gules (red), holding in the beak a cross formy Or (gold).

.

Caldwell of Uptown Warren, co. Gloucester, and co. Leicester, England

NOTE: ..Visitation of Leicester 1619.

Arms as the preceding, quartering Argent (silver), on a fess dancetty Sable (black), three whales' heads erect and erased Or (gold).

CREST: ..A cock's head Argent (silver), (sometimes gold), beaked, combed and wattled Gules (red), between two wings expanded Sable (black), in the beak a cross paty fitchy Or (gold).

.

Cladwell of Gloucester, England

NOTE: ..Har. MSS., 1566.

ARMS: ..Gules (red), three crosses paty fitchy Or (gold).

.

Caldwell

NOTE: ..Granted 4 March 1845, to Sir HENRY JOHN CALDWELL, Baronet, of the city of Quebec, North America. ARMS:..Azure (blue), three tops of wells in masonry, two and one Or (gold).

CREST: ..Out of a ducal coronet Or (gold), a dexter cubit arm in pale Proper (natural color), grasping a cross calvary Gules (red).

MOTTO: ..SAPERE AUDE...(Dare to be wise).

.

Caldwell of Staffordshire, England

ARMS: ..Argent (silver), on a fess dancetty Azure (blue), three fishes' (ling's) heads erased Or (gold).

.

Caldwell

ARMS: ..Argent (silver), on a fess dancetty Sable (black), three lions' heads erased Or (gold).

.

Caldwell of New Grange, co. Meath, Ireland

ARMS: ..Or (gold), in chief three piles Sable (black), each charged with a fountain Proper (natural color), in base four bars wavy alternately Gules (red) and Vert (green), quartering ABDY.

CREST: ..A demi lion grasping a broken scimelar all Proper (natural color).

MOTTO: ..ENSE LIBERTATEM PETIT INIMICO TYRANNIS.

http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com/~heraldry/bga_caldecot_callander.html

Years ago I noted that the Anstruther Arms were very similar to that of Caldwell but dimissed this as a coincidence as Anstruther is very much located in Fife and did not seem to have any other connection.

John and Eilean Malden in their article: "An Heraldic Hierarchy"

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/hierarchy.html

give a working exercise on the hierarchy of the Stewart family and particularly Renfrew families are noted - I was holding my breath as I read it hoping a mention of our family would be made - it didn't happen but the article is well written and illustrated and a very useful tool to help understand the inter-connection of coats of arms.

The predominant black and white piles device on the Caldwell arms may signify a Flemish connection however I think not as the connection to the style of the "le Scot" family of the Earls of Huntingdon is strong. Furthermore I note that the supposed ancestor of Anstruther is "de Candela" supposedly an "Italian" Norman knight from Apulia. When I search for "de Candela" on the web it comes up with Spanish language sites and this makes me think "Gascony" and the border provinces of Spain such as Bearn. Think further south and we are in Languedoc, Albigensian Crusades country, Spanish influence and strog connections to the de Montfort family who married into the Huntingdon family, were on the Welsh borders at Chester

Check this site - note the wheatsheaf arms of the Earl of Chester are also those of the Comyns. Follow the conenction to the de Montford's through Bethrade de Montford -- I have run out of time, but I will be back

http://members.tripod.com/~midgley/chester.html

"Some Distinctive Qualities of Scottish Arms" by Alex Maxwell Findlater is worth reading as an exercise on how various families differenced their arms:

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/distinctive.html

The Mitchell Rolls are various "arms lists" and especialy check out Nisbet who lists the Caldwell Arms.

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/mitchell.html

If you search "Piles" from within the lists you will find the arms that have three piles as a device. Most are in the area of Fife to Dundee on the other side of the Tay and also associated with the catheral city of Brechin a little further north. The Brechin family are associated with Henry of Brechin who was an illegitimate son of David Earl of Huntingdon (who was granted the lands of Garioch and also had some holdings in Lennox). Also see "Le Sire de Bryghyn" (Brechin) - this might have been corrupted to "Bryan" - see mentions of the very similar Bryan Arms elsewhere on the web. Although David was a major English Earl and based in the Honour of Huntingdon he spent a lot of time on his Scottish Estates and was a strong supporter of his elder brothers: Malcolm IV and William I. There is now no doubt in my mind that the acession of David I was a signal for a land-grab by his "Norman" supporters from England and this lasted for 150 years right through to Alexander II. That king-line stacked the regions of Scotland with "their men" who directly owed allegience to this new form of royal government. I was probably a necessary thing if they were to standup to the machinery of the feudal system in England. Additionally because of intermarriage and estates in both countries the Scots kings more than likely saw themselves as having a real claim on the English throne as well.

The arms of Brechin and by implicationand design the arms of the Huntingdon Earls are also those of the Wishart family of ecclesiastics. The Wisharts were also very much associated with Glasgow. I have no reason to believe that there is any direct connection between Wishart and Caldwell but it is something to bear in mind as it is a cnnection of a similar shield of arms back to the same district as the Caldwell family. In fact it is the "only" one outside of the area surrounding Fife.

An isolated example is the "Lord of Jedforest" quartering on one coat of arms of Douglas which is identical to Anstruther. This is worth considering but all other quartering of "Jedforest" or "the Forest" on Angus arms are four piles vert.

The colouring of the "piles" on background is most similar to Anstruther of Fife (also identical to the family of Lochore of Fife - near Cowdenbeath), and to Young who may have had an association with "Old Bar(ns)" in Fife near Anstruther. Lovel of Ballumbie on the outskirts of Dundee is another regional coat of arms with great similarity.

I have also found yet another place in Scotland - a farm in Fife near Collessie called Caldwells. It is next to Meadowells and Lizziewells. I don't know if there is any connection but it does add interest. Obviously the Lizziewells family were not as prolific as the Caldwells

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=326500&y=713500&z=3&sv=Caldwells&st=3&tl=Caldwells,+Fife+&searchp=newsearch.srf&mapp=newmap.srf

For those that would like to help surf the net for clues - from the hearaldry site:

Caulx de Listauric : Or, three points cojoined in base, sable - I have interpreted this as the same as Logan of Lostalrock but have not looked for "Lostalrock" as yet - see who gets there first

Oh, and the Colvilles of Ochiltree eventually left that area and Cardross in Fife became their principal seat. I don't know if they had lands there already.

Genealogy:
David I of Scotland (formerly Earl of Huntingdon)
1) Daughter Marjory married Gilchrist Earl of Angus

Their daughter Beatrix married Walter Stewart

Walter's sister Aveline married Duncan of Carrick

Duncan's son Neil married Walter's daughter Margaret

Their daughter Marjorie firstly married Adam of Kilconquhar (FIFE) who died on a CRUSADE and secondly Robert Bruce the Competitor.

2)Illegitimate son Henry became Henry of Brechin and married Juliana de Cornhill.

Strong links between Ayrshire and the near north east in turbulent times of change.

You have to admit that this is not as simple as just finding one ancestor ....

Tom

This Stirnet reference seems to indicate that Thomas de Colville died 1219 was the son of Philip de Colville.

Thomas Colville le Scot of Carphairn and Dalmellington died 1219 - name expressed differently and whilst holdings in Ayrshire are in the same general area they are quite different.

http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/cc4aq/colville01.htm

Philip de Colville of Oxnam and Helton (a 1154)
1. Thomas de Colville of Oxnam (d 1219)
m. Amabilis
A. Sir John de Colville of Oxnam and Ochiltree
i. William Colville of Oxnam and Ochiltree (d c1280)
m. ? (dau of Sir John de Normanville)
a. Sir Thomas Colville of Oxnam (d c1322)
(1) William Colville of Spindleston and Botel (dsp)
(2) Sir Robert Colville of Oxnam and Ochiltree (d before 02.04.1341)
m. Katerina
(A) Sir Robert Colville of Oxnam (a 1397)
(i) Sir Thomas Colville of Oxnam (d before 04.02.1402-3)
m. Margaret Lindsay (dau of Sir James Lindsay of Crawford)
(a) Robert Colville of Oxnam (d c1449)
m. Margaret Colville
((1)) Sir Robert Colville of Oxnam and Ochiltree (d before 10.1466)
m. (before 02.1450-1) Christian Crichton (d before 03.1478, dau of Sir Robert Crichton of Sanquhar)
((A)) Sir Robert Colville of Ochiltree (d before 24.01.1488-9)
m. Eufame Wallace
((i)) Sir William Colville of Ochiltree
m1. (div before 08.1498) Elizabeth Kennedy (dau of John Kennedy, 2nd Lord)
((a)) Elizabeth Colville
m1. Robert Colville, younger of Ravenscraig
m2. Patrick Colquhoun of Pemont and Drumskeath
(((1))) Francesca Colquhoun (d 07.1591)
m1. Robert Colville of Cleish (d 07.05.1560)
m2. Gilbert Mercer of Sawling
m2. Margaret Ker (widow of John Home of Ersiltoun)
((b)) Margaret Colville
m(??). Andrew Ker of Fernyhirst
m3. Elizabeth Crichton (a 10.1539, widow of ? Campbell)
((ii)) David Colville (a 10.1513)
((iii)) Philip Colville (a 08.1505)
((iv)) James Colville (a 1548)
((a)) William Colville (a 1548)
((2)) ? Cuthbert Colville (d before 1475)
Connected to this family in a way that has not yet been fully determined was Robert Colville of Hiltoun. TSP doubts that he was a half-brother of Sir William, "as has been asserted", but notes that he was probably a contemporary of Sir William's father.
((3)) ?? Colville
((A)) Robert Colville of Hiltoun (a 1495)
m. Margaret Logan
((i)) Robert Colville of Hiltoun and Ochiltree (d Flodden 09.09.1513)
m. Elizabeth Arnot (d before 31.01.1527-8, dau of Walter Arnot of Balbarton)
(b) ? Sir Thomas Colville
(3) Philip Colville of Spindleston and Botel (dsp)
m. Agnes Mordlington (dau of Peter Mordlington of that ilk)
b. Eustacia Colville
m. (sp?) Sir Reginald le Chen of Inverugie (d by 1293)
B. William de Colville of Kinnaird
C. Thomas de Colville of Ochiltree
D. daughter
m. ? Marshall
E. daughter
m. ? Maitland
F. daughter
m. ? Heron
G. daughter (d unm)

This extract of a Carta of William I which is witnessed by Philip de Colville about 1167

The Acts of William I, King of Scots 1165-1214
Book by G. W. S. Barrow; Edinburgh University Press, 1971

COMMENT. The dispute was heard and settled in a session of the curia regis at Stirling in 1167. Besides the king there were present Bishop Richard of St Andrews, Bishop Ingram of Glasgow, Abbot Geoffrey of Dunfermline, Abbot William of Melrose, Earl Waltheof, Nicholas the chancellor, Richard the chaplain, David Olifard and other responsible clergy and laymen. After faith was pledged by both parties, it was decided that the abbot and convent of Crowland had renounced their right in the church and toun of Edrom, which passed in perpetuity, without subsequent challenge, into possession of the church of Durham. In return, the prior and convent of Durham undertook to pay annually to Crowland, at the church of St Leonard, Stamford, the sum of nine marks of silver, in pence, 60s. on 5 February and 60s. on 5 August ( Raine, North Durham, no.642). There seems to be no record either of this dispute or of how Crowland acquired a claim to Edrom in the unpublished MS. cartulary of Crowland abbey, penes the Spalding Gentlemen's Society (I have to thank Mr S. W. Woodward, Hon. Secretary of the society and Mr Short, of Maples Ltd, solicitors, Spalding, for letting me have access to this MS.). The cartulary contains a number of acta of Waltheof, brother of Cospatric II earl of Dunbar, in his capacity of abbot of Crowland ( 1124-38), and it may be that Edrom, which was on the demesne of the earls of Dunbar, was granted to Crowland by Waltheof while he was still a layman, by his father, Earl Cospatric I, or by his brother Cospatric II, perhaps after 1112, in which year miracles began to be worked at Crowland at the tomb of Earl Waltheof of Northumbria ( Ecclesiastical History of Orderic Vitalis, ed. M. Chibnall, ii ( 1969), 349). Waltheof of Crowland witnessed the important declaration anent Archbishop Thurstan's consecration of Robert bishop of St Andrews in 1128 ( Lawrie, Charters, nos.75, 76). For grants and confirmations of Edrom and Nisbet to Durham by successive earls of Dunbar from Cospatric II onwards, see Raine, North Durham, nos.111-14, 116, 135.