The Scottish Caldwell shield has three piles:

"Argent, three piles issuing from the chief sable, and in the base four bars waved gules and vert."

Consider this article ~
(one of David's illegitimate sons was Henry of Brechin)

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/bryang/3piles.html

If we now move to consult Papworth's Ordinary of British Armorials we find that the de Bryan/Bryen family, their descendants or imitators were not the only ones to adopt the three piles so far discussed. There were at least three other families of considerable note in addition. In the 13th century the arms of John le Scot, Earl of Chester, were (according to Burke) Or, three piles gules. Also according to Burke the earldom became extinct in 1244 but this is wrong. Le Scot died childless in 1237 and the earldom was annexed to the Crown. Perhaps because of this last I can find no other member of this family (which related to the Scottish royal house) who assumed or bore the shield of the arms described, and we may move on.

Today, Lord Home of the Hershel (the former Earl of Home/Sir Alec Douglas- Home) carries in the second and third grand quarters of his arms, argent three piles gules marking the lordship of Brechin in Scotland, although Burke blazons the shield of that fief as Or, three piles in point gules which, given that we can place any reliance on Burke, is an interesting variation as will be shown. Sufficient for the present to observe that the coincidence of argent, three piles gules for Bryan of Wexford and the lordship of Brechin is quite probably of no significance and unlikely to confuse the armorist, although it is not so easy lightly to dismiss the similarities between the coats of le Scot and the lords of Brechin.

We may now move on to consider the arms of the Basset family and the ancient house of Ridel. From an early date, and in several counties, the arms of Basset closely resemble those of le Scot, and bear a resemblance so far as design is concerned to Bryan such to pose interesting questions to the heraldist and cause confusion to the historian. The arms of Basset of Weldon are blazoned Or three piles gules within a bordure sable bezantee. Basset of Drayton (of the time of King Edward III) Or three piles the points meeting in base gules a quarter ermine. A further branch of the family employed Or three piles sable at about the same time (and these, of course, come very close to the fourteenth century Or three piles azure of de Bryan). These arms, charged with three piles, were not, however, the original arms of the Basset family, they belonged to the house of Ridel. The two families had been close for along time. The first record known to me describes how, in the year 1106, Geoffrey Ridel (died 1120) acted as a commissioner with Ralf Basset and other leading men in the matter of sanctuary at Ripon. A later Geoffrey Ridel (died 1189) was bishop of Ely and siding with Henry II, played a leading part in the quarrel between the king and Thomas a Becket. Around this time, perhaps a little later, the date is uncertain, Maud Ridel married Richard Basset and the family connections were made.

The original arms of Basset were, according to Sir William Dugdale's The Usage of Arms, of the kind capable of being blazoned undie (that is to say barry wavy) but by the time of Edward III all cadet branches of Basset had invested themselves into Ridel, from their first adoption of the "3 piles of Ridel" at an earlier indeterminate date. The arms did not, however, remain wholly with Basset, for also in the reign of King Edward III, around 1348, they were adopted by Sir Hugh Wrottesley (a founder Knight of the Garter) who, being a grandson in the female line of a Basset of Drayton took unto himself Or, three piles sable. Yet another branch of Basset displayed Or, three piles meeting in the base of the escutcheon sable within a bordure argent bezantee. If we now compare this last with the arms defined by Burke as Bryan of Bedford (Or, three piles meeting near in the base, vert within a bordure azure bezantee) we might easily be forgiven for thinking that we were looking at the shields of closely related branches of the same family, but I can find no direct line between the Bassets and the Bryans - true, they were slightly related by marriage through the Fitzpaines, Greys of Codnor, de la Poles and Courtneys, but the links are by no means close.

The matter becomes even more puzzling when we realise that the generations of Ridel/Basset and de Bryan were contemporary, and that in the second half of the 14th century Ralph Basset of Drayton and Guy de Bryan were both summoned to Parliament and both gave evidence before the Scrope and Grosvenor enquiry into the identical charges and tinctures borne by Richard le Scrope and Robert Grosvenor. Then when we take into account that about this time Sir Hugh Wrottesley was also a Knight of the Garter we have three members of that distinguished Order with the following shields or arms: Wrottesley a founder knight of the Order in 1348, bearing Or, three piles sable which he took in honour of his maternal grandfather. Basset of Drayton elected to the Garter in 1368 and bearing Or, three piles gules a quarter ermine. Bryan of Woodsford (Sir Guy de Bryan) elected to the Order in 1369 whose shield was Or, three piles azure.

John Campbell-Kease

This information has been found on a Scandinavian site (thank you) and needs much revision - I have just collected it her ein rough form and will get back to it later.

Henry 2nd Earl of Huntingdon, (Taulusta 144) , s. 1114, k. 12.6. 1152.
Succeeded as Earl of Huntingdon on his father's resignation of the earldom in 1136. During the wars between his father and Stephen he fought on the Scottish side at the battle of the Standard. On peace being made in 1139 he received the Earldom of Northumberland, the cities of Newcastle and Bamborough being excepted. he became a favourite with Stephen, remaining with him in England for some time. As "Henry the Earl, son of the King of Scotland" he made grants to St.Andrew's, Northants and in 1150 founded the Abbey of Holmcultram in Cumberland. He married Ada (or Adeline), daughter of William de Warenne, Earl of Surrey, by Isabel, daughter of Hugh, Count of Vermandois. He died 12.6.1152 and was buried at Kelso. His widow died in 1178, having in that year founded the Nunnery of Haddington).

Vanhemmat David I 'the Saint', King of Scotland, s. 1084, k. 24.5. 1153 Carlisle,Cumbria ja Matilda (Maud de Lens) of Northumberland, s. abt. 1074, k. 1131 (Taulusta 144)

Puoliso: 1139 Adelaide de Warenne. (Taulu 139) k. 1178. (NKG XIII-24).
Vanhemmat William (2nd Earl of Warren & Surrey) de Warenne, k. 11.5. 1138 ja Elisabeth of Vermandois, s. 1085, k. 31.3. 1131 (Taulusta 145)

Lapset:
1. Malcolm IV 'the Maiden', King of Scotland, s. 20.3. 1141, k. 9.12. 1165 Jedburgh

2. William I (The Lion) King of Scotland, s. 1143. Tauluun 268

3. David, Earl of Huntingdon, s. abt.1144. Tauluun 176

4. Ada of Huntingdon

5. Margaret Countess of Hereford, k. 1201 Sawtrey Abbey

6. Mathilde of Huntingdon, k. 1152

7. Marjory of Huntingdon.

David I 'the Saint', King of Scotland , s. 1084, k. 24.5. 1153 Carlisle,Cumbria.

Malcolm III Canmore, s. abt. 1031, k. 13.11. 1093 battle of Alnwik ja (St. Margaret) Atheling, k. 16.11. 1093

Puoliso: 1113 Matilda (Maud de Lens) of Northumberland. (Taulu 143) , s. abt. 1074, k. 1131. (NKG XII-237).
Vanhemmat Walter Earl of Huntingdon, k. 1076 ja Judith of Aumale, s. 1054, k. aft. 1086

Lapset:
1. Malcolm of Scotland, k. klein

2. Claricia of Scotland

3. Hodierna Scotland

4. Henry 2nd Earl of Huntingdon, s. 1114.

Isabella of Huntingdon. (Taulu 172) , s. 1206, k. 1251. (ES NF/II Tafel 90).
Vanhemmat David, Earl of Huntingdon, Knight, s. abt. 1144, k. 17.6. 1219 Jerdelay ja Matilda of Chester, k. 6.1. 1233 (Taulusta 176)

Lapset:
1. Robert de Bruce, s. 1210. Tauluun 172

2. Bernard de Bruce, Lord of Conningron and Exton

3. Beatrice de Bruce

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 174

XXIV William de Bruce, (Taulusta 175) k. succeeded his father in Annandale about 1194. His wifes name was Christina, who survived him and married, after his death in 1215, Patrick, Earl of Dunbar, as his second wife. (SP 2, s.430; ES NF/II Tafel 92).
Vanhemmat Robert de Brus, Lord of Annandale, k. 1194 ja Euphemia (Taulusta 175)

Puoliso: Christina. (Taulu 173) .

Lapset:
1. Robert de Bruce. Tauluun 173

2. William de Bruce

3. John de Bruce

Robert de Brus , Lord of Annandale, k. 1194.
"le meschin" or the yonger, the second son of his father, got from his Scottish possessions of Annandale just before the battle of the Standard in 1138; they were both present at that engagement, but upon different sides, though the yong possessor of Annandale was only fourteen. He is said to have been taken prisoner by his own father, who sent him to King Stephen, but that monarch courteously remitted him to his mother at Skelton. The whole affair was probably a family arrangement to prevent the lands, in the case of either side winning, from going out of the family by forfeiture. Robert de Brus had a grant of certain lands in Durham from his father, on a complaint made by him that he had no wheaten bread in Annandale. He had also a confirmation of the last-named territory from William the Lion, dated at Lochmabe, c.1166. Brus married a lady, whose Christian name was Euphemia.
(SP 2,s.429-430; ES NF/II Tafel 92).

Vanhemmat Robert de Brus, s. 1078, k. 1141 ja Agnes (Agnes Paynell) (of Annandale) Bruce

Puoliso: Euphemia. (Taulu 174) .

Lapset:
1. Robert de Bruce, k. bef. 1191

2. William de Bruce.

David, Earl of Huntingdon, (Taulusta 143) , Knight, s. abt. 1144, k. 17.6. 1219 Jerdelay. Huntingdonin Jaarli.
Kuningas William Leijonan, hänen veljensä sivuhaaran sammuttua kruunu siirtyi Davidin tyttärien kautta ensin Bruce-suvulle ja sitten Stewart (Stuart)-suvulle
(NKG XIV-40; Priha,s. ; ES NF/II Tafel 90; SP 1.s.4).

Vanhemmat Henry 2nd Earl of Huntingdon, s. 1114, k. 12.6. 1152 ja Adelaide de Warenne, k. 1178 (Taulusta 143)

1. puoliso: 26.8. 1190 Matilda of Chester. (Taulu 173) k. 6.1. 1233.
Vanhemmat Hugh (6th Earl of Chester) de Keveliok, s. 1147, k. 30.6. 1181 Leeke, Staffordshire ja Bertrada de Evreux, s. 1156, k. 1227 (Taulusta 177)

Lapset:
1. Robert

2. Henry

3. John le Scot, Earl of Chester, Earl of Huntingdon, k. 5.6. 1237

4. Margaret of Huntingdon, s. c.1194, k. 1228

5. Isabella of Huntingdon, s. 1206. Tauluun 173

6. Ada of Huntingdon, k. aft. 1241

7. Matilda of Huntingdon

2. vihkimättä: N.N. .

Lapset:
8. Henry (of Stirling) le Scott

9. Henry (of Brechin) le Scott

10. Ada of Huntingdon

Neil (2nd Earl of Carrick) Galloway, (Taulusta 182) , s. abt. 1202, k. 1256.
He was also called Nicol and Nicolaus, was a great benefactor to the Church, particularly to the monastries of Crossraguel and to Sandale in Kintyre. A commission was granted by Henry III in 1225 for receiving Neil, Earl of Carrick, and other Scotsmen into his protection, and he was one of the Regents of Scotland, and Guardians of Alexander III and his Queen, appointed in the English interest at a convention at Roxburgh 20.9.1255. Previous to his death in 1256 he granted a charter to Sir Roland de Carrick, who succeeded him in some of his lands, constituting him and his heirs head of the whole clan, as already stated. He is said to have married Margaret, daughter of Walter, High Steward of Scotland. He had issue four daughters, but only Margaret or Marjorie, the eldest, who succeeded him as Countess of Carrick, is known to history.

Duncan, 1st Earl of Carrick, s. abt. 1174, k. 13.6. 1250 ja Avelina Stewart (Taulusta 182)

Puoliso: Margaret Stewart. (Taulu 133) , (AFN:9G46-MR), s.
Vanhemmat Walter (3rd High Steward of Scotland) FitzAlan, s. , k. 1241 ja Beatrix of Angus, (AFN:H110Q-7W), s. (Taulusta 133)

Lapset:
1. Marjorie (Margaret) Countess of Carrick, s. abt.1252. Tauluun 171

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 182

XXIII Duncan, (Taulusta 183) , 1st Earl of Carrick, s. abt. 1174, k. 13.6. 1250.
He is afterwards mentioned as Sir Duncan de Carrick. The death of Gilbert was the signal for general turmoil among the Galwegians. Roland, the son of the murdered Uchtred, defeated the supporters of the late Gilbert in a furious fight, 5.7.1185, and slew Henry Kennedy and others who are described as leaders and instigators og rebellion. In 1186 Duncan compromised with Roland, in consequence of which King William the Lion confirmed to him the territory of Carrick on condition he renounced all claims to the southern portion of ancient Galloway. He had considerable estates, at the same time, in the north of Ireland. In 1193, or before 1197 he granted the lands of Maybothelbeg or Little Maybole to the monks of Melrose, and he also founded and richly endowed the Abbey of Crossraguel, and there are many other instances of his munificence to the Church. He took part with King John of England, who calls him his cousin or kinsman, in his wars in Ireland. He also captured Matillidis de Haya, wife of William de Braosa, her son and daughter, who had fled from Ireland to Scotland and handed them over to the English King. He was present when Alexander II took his oath to marry Joanna, eldest sister of Henry III. Duncan is said to have been created Earl of Carrick by King Alexander II 1225-1230, on condition that he resigned all claim to the lordship of Galloway. The descendants of Duncan and his son Neil appear to have the name of the Carrick.

Gilbert, s. Carrick, Ayrshire, Scotland, k. 1.1. 1185 ja N.N. (Taulusta 183)

Puoliso: abt. 1200 Avelina Stewart. (Taulu 134) .
Vanhemmat Alan FitzWalter, 2nd High Steward of Scotland, s. abt. 1126, k. 1204 ja Eve of Grawford (Taulusta 134)

Lapset:
1. Neil (2nd Earl of Carrick) Galloway, s. abt.1202.

Gilbert, (Taulusta 184) , s. Carrick, Ayrshire, Scotland, k. 1.1. 1185.
THE ANCIENT EARLS OF CARRICK
The earldom of Carrick was at one time the northern portion of the old province of Galloway, which was in ancient times governed by its own princes and its own laws, and included all that is now called South Ayrshire, Wigtownshire, and the Stewartry of Kirkcudbright. The people were Gaelic, perhaps descendants of the Picts. The first personage of note in Galloway history apart from tradition is FERGUS, Prince or Lor of Galloway, who died in 1161, leaving tewo sons: 1.UCHTRED, who will be treated under the title Galloway, 2. GILBERT, according to the then custom, shared with his brother the lordship of Galloway and the lands. They attented William the Lion in his invasion of Northumberland in 1174, when that monarch was taken prosoner. Galloway then broke into rebellion, many subjects of Scotland were murdered, the Kings officers expeeled, and the castles, which had but recently been built to protect them, trown down. The brothers then quarrelled as their respective jurisdictions, and Gilbert, by the agency of his son Malvcolm, perhaps illegitimate, slew his brother Uchtred, who adhered to the Scottish King, 22.9.1174, with peculiar circumstancesof savage brutality. Gilbert offered to pay the EnglishKing a yearly tribute of 2000 merks silver, 500 cows and 500 swine, but Henry II, on account of the murder of Uchtred, refused both homage and tribute. In 1175, William of Scotland being restored to liberty, marched an army into Galloway to chastise Gilbert, but instead of executing justice, contended himself with exacting a pecuniary satisfaction. In 1176 Gilbert came to York with Williamm and was received by Henry. There he left his son Duncan as hostage for his friendship, and in 1180 he was charged in the English Exchequer with the then enormous sum of ¹919,9s. In 1184 he is found under the protection of England, making devastating raids into Scotland and rejecting terms of accommodation offered to him.
(SP 2.s.421-422).

Vanhemmat Fergus Lord of Galloway, s. Galloway, Perthshire, Scotland, k. 12.5. 1161 Holyrood Abbey, Edinburgh, Scotland ja Elisabeth Princess of England, s. Talby, Yorkshire, England (Taulusta 184)

Puoliso: N.N.. (Taulu 182) .

Lapset:
1. Duncan, s. abt.1174. Tauluun 182

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 184

XXV Fergus Lord of Galloway , s. Galloway, Perthshire, Scotland, k. 12.5. 1161 Holyrood Abbey, Edinburgh, Scotland.
Galloway, though the name in now chiefly aplied to the two counties of Kirkcudbright and Wigtown, comprehended also, at the earliest period of recorded history in Scotland, the district of Carrick, or the southern portion of Ayrshire. The chiefs of this large tract of country, although they acknowledged the King of Scots as their overlord, and followed him to battle, still maintained a separate jurisdiction, and the district then recognised as Galloway was governed by its own laws. The Galloway men vere present in large force under King David I at the battle of the Standard, fought on Cutton or Cowton Moor 22.8.1138, and two of their leaders, Ulgric and Donewald, were killed. But the first Lord or Prince of Galloway on records is: Fergus, usually styled "de Galweia" or "of Galloway", who appears as a witness to a charter by King David I granting land in Perdeyc or Partick to the Church of Glasgow on 7.7.1136, when that church was dedicated. He also appears as a witness in other writs, probably of a later date, but not beyond 1147. Little is known of his personal history, but like King David I with whom he was contemporary, he gave liberally to the church, and was the founder of several abbeys in his own district, a fact which showed his desire to civilise his somewhat unruly vassals. He is also credited with aiding in the establishment or the revival of a bishopric in Galloway before 1154, when the first bishop, Christian, was consecrated at Bermondsey by the Archibishop of Rouen. The abbeys founded by Fergus alone or jointly with King David were Dundrennan and Tongland in co. Kirkcudbright and Soulseat co. Wigtown. The Priories were St.Mary's Isle in the first shire, and Whithorn in the other. Towards the close of his life, and after the death of King David, Fergus appears to have beeb drawn by the claims of relationship to take part in the insurrection of Donald MacHeth, or least to afford him shelter in his territories. There Donald was pursued by King Malcolm IV, who succeeded in 1160 reducing the rebellious district to submission, and Fergus, perhaps because of advancing age, took the cowl, and became a monk in the then new Abbey of Holyrood, where he died in 1161. He is said to have married Elizabeth, the yongest natural daughter of King Henry I of England, but the authorities quoted by Chalömers, who makes the statement, do not bear out his assertion. On the other hand, Hoveden and Benedict Abbas, both refer to Uthred, eldest son of fergus, as a cousin or relative of King Henry II. This epithet is not applied to Gilbert, and he may have been a son by a second wife. (SP Osa ?, s-135-136).

Puoliso: abt. 1124 Carrick, Ayrshire, England Elisabeth Princess of England. (Taulu 183) , s. Talby, Yorkshire, England.

Lapset:
1. Uchtred Lord of Galloway, s. 1100 Wigtown, Galloway, Scotland, k. 22.9. 1174 murdered

2. Gilbert, s. abt. 1126. Tauluun 183

3. Aufrick of Galloway, s. Carrick,

4. Margaret of Galloway, s. Carrick,

Sir Adam (of Rowallan) Mure, (Taulusta 203) , Sir, s., k. 1399?. (AFN:9FKC-45).
Vanhemmat William Mure of Rowallan, k. ja N.N. Lindsay (Taulusta 203)

Puoliso: Joan Cunningham. (Taulu 129) .

Lapset:
1. Elisabeth (of Rowallan) Mure, s. abt. 1320. Tauluun 129

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 203

XX William Mure of Rowallan, (Taulusta 204) k.
Vanhemmat Archibald Mure of Rowallan ja N.N. Montgomery (Taulusta 204)

Puoliso: N.N. Lindsay. (Taulu 202) .

Lapset:
1. Sir Adam (of Rowallan) Mure, s. abt 1290. Tauluun 202

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 204

XXI Archibald Mure of Rowallan .

Puoliso: N.N. Montgomery. (Taulu 203) .

Lapset:
1. William Mure of Rowallan

William "the Breton" de Aubigny . Ancestor of the Lords of Belvoir (SP 8,s.242, CP XII s.381,note e).

Puoliso: Matilda (of Northampton) de (Senlis) St.Liz. (Taulu 216) , Lady Bradham, s. 1095 Winchester, Hampshire, England, k. 1140. (NKG XIII-423).
Vanhemmat Simon (Earl of Northampton) de St.Liz, Huntingdonin Jaarli, s. Normandia, Ranska, k. 1111 ja Matilda (Maud de Lens) of Northumberland, s. abt. 1074, k. 1131 (Taulusta 220)

Lapset:
1. Matilda de Aubigny. Tauluun 216

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 220

XXV Simon (Earl of Northampton) de St.Liz , Huntingdonin Jaarli, s. Normandia, Ranska, k. 1111.
Said to be a son of Ranulph the Rich, a Norman, appears to have come to England early in the reign of William II. Presumably in consequence of his marriage, he bacame Earl of Huntingdon and Northampton after 1086 (for he is not named in Domesday Book) and in or before 1090, when he witnessed a charter to Bath Abbey's as "Earl Simon". He witnessed another royal charter under the same designation a little later. He fought for William in Normandy in 1098, and was taken prisoner by Louis, son of the French King. On the accessionof Henry I in 1100he witnessed the charter of liberties issued by the King at his coronation. He built the Castle of Northampton, and founded or refounded the Priory of St.Andrew in that town, and made it dependent on the Cluniac house of La Charise-sur-Loire; this was probablyin the time of William Rufus, but certainly before 1108, when he granted an ample charter to it in conjunction with Maud, his wife. He was a benefactor also to Daventry Priory, and probably built St.Sepulchre's, Northampton, about this time. He went to Jerusalem "cruse signatus", and returned safely, but setting out again he died on the way at the abovenamed Priory of La Charitâe, and was buried there. He married, perhaps as early as 1090, when she would be aged about 18, Maud, eldest daughter of Waltheof, Earl of Huntingdon and Northampton, by Judith, niece of William I, both amovementioned. He died, as aforesaid, at La Charitâe, presumably in 1111 or shortly afterwards. His widow married David I of Scotland.
(CP 6,s.640-641; NKG XII-237).

Vanhemmat Ranulph the Rich

Puoliso: abt. 1090 Matilda (Maud de Lens) of Northumberland. (Taulu 143). (Taulu 144) , s. abt. 1074, k. 1131. (NKG XII-237).
Vanhemmat Walter Earl of Huntingdon, k. 1076 ja Judith of Aumale, s. 1054, k. aft. 1086

Lapset:
1. Matilda (of Northampton) de (Senlis) St.Liz, s. 1095. Tauluun 219

2. Walther v St.Liz, Abt v Melrose 1148

3. Simon II (Earl of Huntingdon) de St.Liz, s. aft. 1103

John (Lord Crawford) de Crawford, (Taulusta 233) , s. 1167 Crawford, Ayrshire, Scotland, k. 1248 Melrose Abbey, Scotland.
Vanhemmat Reginald de Crawford (Taulusta 233)

Lapset:
1. Margaret Grawford. Tauluun 230

2. Daughter de Crawford

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 233

XXII Reginald de Crawford, (Taulusta 234) .
Vanhemmat Hugh de Crawford (Taulusta 234)

Lapset:
1. John (Lord Crawford) de Crawford, s. 1167. Tauluun 232

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 234

XXIII Hugh de Crawford, (Taulusta 235) .
Vanhemmat Domincus Galfridus de Crawford, k. abt. 1202 ja daughter le Scot (Taulusta 235)

Lapset:
1. Reginald de Crawford. Tauluun 233

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 235

XXIV Domincus Galfridus de Crawford, (Taulusta 236) k. abt. 1202.
Vanhemmat Reginald (1st Earl of Cruford) Crawford, s. abt. 1100, k. 1146 ja Daughter B Sweinsdottir (Taulusta 236)

Puoliso: daughter le Scot. (Taulu 234) .
Vanhemmat David Earl of Huntingdon (Taulusta 237)

Lapset:
1. Reginald de Crawford

2. Hugh de Crawford. Tauluun 234

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 236

XXV Reginald (1st Earl of Cruford) Crawford , s. abt. 1100, k. 1146.
Vanhemmat Alan (4th Earl of Richmond) Crawford

Puoliso: Daughter B Sweinsdottir. (Taulu 235) .
Vanhemmat Swein (of Crawford) Thorson

Lapset:
1. Domincus Galfridus de Crawford. Tauluun 235

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 237

XXV David Earl of Huntingdon .

Lapset:
1. John (Earl of Chester) le Scott

2. daughter le Scot.

Alexander (6th Earl of Buchan) Comyn, (Taulusta 189)
Son of William Comyn and Marjory, Countess of Buchan, is named Alexander Comyn only in a charter by King Alexander to the monks of Lesmahago in 1240, and also in a charter by the same King to Walran de Normanvill on 8 April 1242, but he succeeded his mother, as Earl of Buchan, between 1242-1244. In a charter to the church of Arbroath he expressly states that he was the son of Marjory and the grandson of Fergus. He took a conspicuous part in the public affairs of Scotland in the reign of Alexander II, and in the beginning of the reign of Alexander III he said his half-brother, the Earl of Menteith, and his nephew John, the Red Comyn, having got possession of the person of the young King, took the government of Scotland into their own hands. He was appointed Justiciar of Scotland, north of the Forth, in 1251, and with a short interval held that office till his death. He founded in 1261 a hospital for decayed husbandmen at Newburgh, and in 1272-73 another at Turriff, whose foundation charter is witnessed by Alexander II. From this and other charters it seems that he had a residence at Kelly, now Haddo House, but the castle of Kingedward, mentioned in the charter of Turriff Hospital was afterwards - and prhaps then - the chief messuage of the earldom of Buchan. He married Elizabeth or Isabella (called also Marjory), third daughter of Roger de Quincy, Earl of Winton, by his first wife Alianora, daughter and co-heiress of Alan of Galloway, who was hereditary Constable of Scotland. In 1270 Margaret, Countess of Derby, eldest daughter of Roger de Quincy, resigned the office of Constable in Scotland, to which she had succeeded, in favour of Alexander Comyn, who thereafter acted as Constable of Scotland. In 1264, after the battle of Largs, he was sent along with the Earl of Mar and Sir Alan Durward, then Justiciar, to reduce to submission the Western Islesmen, who had sided with Haco of Norway. In 1281 he was Justiciar of Scotland. In February 1283-84 he entered into an agreement with other nobles to maintain the succession to the Crown for Princess Margaret of Norway, after the death of her grandfather, Alexander III, and when the King died, 19.3.1285-86, the Earl was appointed one of the six guardians for Scotland. Before 1264 he was Sheriff of Wigtownshire and of Dingwall. During the reigns of Alexander III and of Margaret he was the wealthiest and the most influential man in the kingdom. At his dead, in 1289, he left several sons and daughters. (CP 2,s.254-255).

Vanhemmat William (Earl of Buchan) Comyn, s. abt. 1160, k. 1233 ja Marjorie Countess of Buchan, s. abt. 1170, k. bef. 1244 (Taulusta 189)

Puoliso: Elisabeth de Quincy. (Taulu 242) .
Vanhemmat Roger (2nd Earl of Winchester) de Quincy, 2nd Earl of Winchester, k. 25.4. 1264 ja Helen of Galloway (Taulusta 244)

Lapset:
1. John (7th Earl of Buchan) Comyn, k. 1308

2. Alexander (Sheriff of Aberdeen) Comyn

3. Lady Marjory Comyn

4. Elizabeth Comyn

5. Agnes (Egidia?) Comyn. Tauluun 242

6. Elena Comyn

Roger (2nd Earl of Winchester) de Quincy, (Taulusta 245) , 2nd Earl of Winchester, k. 25.4. 1264.
Vanhemmat Saher de Quincy, 1. Earl of Winchester, s. 1155 Winchester, Hampshire, Englanti, k. 3.11. 1219 Damietta ja Margaret de Beaumont (Taulusta 245)

1. puoliso: bef. 1234 Helen of Galloway. (Taulu 243) . died after 21.11.1245.
Vanhemmat Alan Lord of Galloway, s. 1180 Runnemede, Scotland, k. 1233/34 ja N.N. (Taulusta 248)

Lapset:
1. Margaret de Quincy

2. Elisabeth de Quincy. Tauluun 243

3. Elena de Quincy

2. puoliso: Maud de Bohun .
Vanhemmat Humphrey (6th Earl of Hertford & Essex) de Bohun ja Maud de Lusignan, k. 14.8. 1241

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 245

XXIV Saher de Quincy, (Taulusta 246) , 1. Earl of Winchester, s. 1155 Winchester, Hampshire, Englanti, k. 3.11. 1219 Damietta.
Vanhemmat Robert de Quincy, Buckleyn ja Fawsiden Lordi, s. Winchester, Hampshire, Englanti, k. 1192 ja Orabilis (Taulusta 246)

Puoliso: Margaret de Beaumont. (Taulu 244) .
Vanhemmat Robert III de Beaumont, Leicesterin Jaarli, s. Leicester, k. 1190 Durazzo, Kreikka ja Petronilla de Grandmesnil, s. 1149, k. 1.4. 1212 (Taulusta 247)

Lapset:
1. Roger (2nd Earl of Winchester) de Quincy. Tauluun 244

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 246

XXV Robert de Quincy , Buckleyn ja Fawsiden Lordi, s. Winchester, Hampshire, Englanti, k. 1192.
Vanhemmat Saher I de Quincy, Lord of Daventry, k. 1156/58 ja Matilda (of Northampton) de (Senlis) St.Liz, Lady Bradham, s. 1095 Winchester, Hampshire, England, k. 1140

Puoliso: Orabilis. (Taulu 245) . died before 30.6.1203, when she is referred to as deceased ina bull of Innocent III.
Vanhemmat Ness fitzWilliam, Leucharsin Lordi

Lapset:
1. Saher de Quincy, s. 1155. Tauluun 245

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 247

XXV Robert III de Beaumont , Leicesterin Jaarli, s. Leicester, k. 1190 Durazzo, Kreikka.
Only son and heir. He first appears in 1153, when he received a charter from Henry, son of the Empress, "restoring" to him the lands then held by Roberts father, with all the lands which William de Paci held in England and in Normandy, and granting him the Dapifership of England and of Normandy. The charter is similar to one given at the same time to his father the Earl. About five years after his succession he appears to have refused to accept the old composition for the third penny of the pleas of the county, claiming that he ought to have the increased sum now paid for it. Unlike his predecessorsm who had augmented their fortunes by adherence to the Crown, Robert took a rebellious course soon after he succeeded his father, by espuosing the cause of the "yong King" Henry, son of Henry II, when he revolted in 1173. The King at once confiscated Roberts English estates and attacked the town of Leicester, which was taken and burnt (28 July), while the castle held out. At that time Robert was in Normandy, having crossed in the spring and shut himself in his fortress of Breteuil. On 8.8. the King appeared before Brâeteuil and captured and burnt it on 25. and 26.9., Robert having fled before the siege began. Robert landed at Walton in Suffolk on 29.9.1173 with a force of Flemish mercenaries, and was at once joined by Hugh Bigod, Earl of Norfolk, and their combined forces plundered Norwich, and took the castle of Hagenet on 13.10.. Thence he started for Leicester, where his castle still held out, but on 17.10. he encountered the King's forces under Richard de Luci ("the loyal") at Fornham, near Bury (Suffolk), and in the fight that ensued was completely defeated, and captured with his Countess. They were sent to the King in Normandy, who imprisoned them at Falaice, and on in return to England, 8.7.1174, took them with him. The seneschal of Leicester Castle having begun to ravage the neighbouring country, Henry extorted from Robert the surrender, 31.July, of his strongholds of Leicester, Mount Sorrel and Groby. The Earl and Countess were taken back to Normandy 8.Aug., but the treaty of oeace between the King and his sons, 30.10.1174, stipulated for their release. Henry, however, demolished Leicester Castle. The rebellion having been crushed, Robert was no longer a menace, and in Jan. 1176/77, at the Council of Northampton, had restored to him all his castles except Mount Sorrel. He crossed to Normandy that summer, and is said to have gone on pilgrimage in 1179, but no more is heard of him until the spring of 1183, when he was once more under suspicion, fot he was arrested and imprisoned, together with his brother-in-law, the Earl of Gloucester. He was, however, in favour again and with the Court at Christmas 1186 at Guildford. At the Coronation of RichardI, 3.9.1189, he carried one of the Swords of State. On 1.Dec. following he witnessed a charter to the monks at Canterbury, and then set out on Crusade to Jerusalem, and died on the way back. He married, before 1155-1159, OPernel (Petronilla), heiress of the Norman honour of Grandmesnil, great-granddaughter of Hugh de Grandmesnil, the Domesday tenant, but her parentage has not been doscovered. His widow had a grant of the market and bridge at Ware for life, 10.Mar.1207/08. She died 1.4.1212.
(NKG XIV-25; CP 7. s.530-533).

Vanhemmat Robert II de Beaumont, s. 1104, k. 1168 ja Amica de Gael

Puoliso: Petronilla de Grandmesnil. (Taulu 245) , s. 1149, k. 1.4. 1212.
Vanhemmat Hugh de Grandmesnil

Lapset:
1. Margaret de Beaumont. Tauluun 245

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 248

XXIV Alan Lord of Galloway, (Taulusta 249) , s. 1180 Runnemede, Scotland, k. 1233/34.
Alan, son of Roland, as he is constantly styled, succeeded his father as Constable, and also in the lordship of Galloway, with his other large domains in Scotland and England. He is first named in 1196 in connection with lands of Teinford, co. Northampton, which apparently he held apart from his father. After his fathers death in 1200, he constantly appears as a witness in royal charters, and apparently took his share in public affairs. He and his mother had, in 1212, an action relating to Whissendine and Bosegate, lands in Northamptonshire, as to which it was disputed whether Ricard de Morville was seised in 1174 and whether he was dispossessed in consequence of the war in that year. The latest act of Alans father was to offer 500 merks to obtain an assize to settle the question, but it was only determined on 29.4.1212, or a little later, when a jury found that Richard was so seised and was disseised as stated. Later Alan and his mother were called to pay so much into the treasury. In July of the same year, partly, no doubt, as a kinsman and also as a Scottish baron holding large fiefs in England, he was asked by King John for assistance in the latters invasion of Ireland. The King begged Alan to send as soon as possible to Chester a thousand of his best and most active Galwegians before Sunday 19.8. For this, and no doubt other services, King John granted him, in 1213 a large number of fiefs in Ireland, which were assigned to him or his agents ny John, Bishop of Norwich, in a formal assembly at Carrickfergus. To these were added rights of forest and privileges of fairs and markets. The grants were repeated and confirmed two years later, on 27.6.1215. This was a few days after the granting, at Runnymede, of the Great Charter, Alan of Galloway being named among those present as one of the great barons of England. It is not certain what part Alan played in the war which followed later in the year 1215, whether he sided with the English barons who opposed King John or which the King of Scots, but the destruction of the monastery of Holmcoltram is usually assigned to the ravages of the Galwegians who followed Alexander II in his invasion of England. It was certainly in 1215 that, according to Fordun, Alan was secured in his Constableship by the new King of Scots. Soon after the accession of King Henry III to the Englisk throne he summoned King Alexander and also Alan og Galloway tp deliver up the Castle of Carlisle, and in the beginning of 1219 Alan had a safe-conduct to do homage for his lands in England, which meanwhile were taken in King Henrys hand. Alan was present at York on 15.6.1220, and swore to observe King Alexandera oath that he would marry Joanna, eldest sister of King Henry, and in obedience to a letter from King Henry he made his own personal homage at the same time. The following day his lands were ordered to be restored to him, including his Iris hestates. Later he was in active service with his galleys cruising off the coast of Ireland in opposition to Hugh de Lacy, then in rebellion. Lacy submitted to King Henry in 1224 and in the following year Alan waspermitted to lease his lands in Ireland and place tenants on them. In October 1229 he was summoned to go abroad with King Henry. One of the latest references to him in English records is a permit to him to send a ship to Ireland to buy victuals, between Candlemas and Micaelmas 1232. His appearances in Scottish record are not so numerous, being chiefly confined to grants or other benefactions to religious houses. He died in 1234 and was buried in the Abbey of Dundrennan.
(SP 4.s.139-141).

Vanhemmat Roland Lord of Galloway, s. , k. 1200 ja Elena de Morville, s. 1165 Kirkoswald, Cumberland, England, k. 11.6. 1217 (Taulusta 249)

1. puoliso: N.N.. (Taulu 244) . said to be a daughter of Reginald, Lord of the Isles. (SP 4.s.137).

Lapset:
1. Helen of Galloway. Tauluun 244

2. Thomas (Earl of Atholl) Galloway

2. puoliso: c.1209 Margaret of Huntingdon. (Taulu 176) , s. c.1194, k. 1228. (ES NF/II Tafel 90).
Vanhemmat David, Earl of Huntingdon, Knight, s. abt. 1144, k. 17.6. 1219 Jerdelay ja Matilda of Chester, k. 6.1. 1233

Lapset:
3. Christina of Galloway, k. 1246

4. Marian de Galloway

5. Devorguilla of Galloway, s. c.1218. Tauluun 254

3. puoliso: 1228 Helen de Lacy , s. c.1174.
Vanhemmat Hugh de Lacy ja Lesceline de Verdun

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 249

XXV Roland Lord of Galloway , s., k. 1200.
Lord of Galloway and latterly Constable of Scotland, was apprently not the eldest son, but appears as Roland, son of Uchtred (his most common designation), in the charter of Annandale granted by King William the Lion, which may be dated about 1166, along with his father and uncle. He was also at the Scottisk Court in 1180, when he was one of those judges who decided a dispute between the monks of Melrose and Richard Morville the Constable, then or later his father-in-law. He greatly resented his fathers death, but appears to have bided his time until the death of his uncle Gilbert, when he rapidly collected a large force, and swept over Galloway, devastating the territory, slaying the richer and more powerful inhabitants, and seizing their lands, where he planted forts to secure his authority. He also did good service to King William by attacking and cutting short the career of more than one public marauder. But King Henry II of England, who had aspired to the protector of Galloway, resented this, and was so much in earnest that he marched a large force to Carlisle, while Roland prepared for invasion by Fortifying the natural approaches to his territory. War was averted, and Roland was persuaded to meet the two Kings at Carlisle. Peace was arranged, and Roland gave his three sons as hostages for his good faith, while King William assigned that part of ancient Galloway called Carrick to Rolands cousin Duncan, son of Gilbert, which he accepted, renouncing all claims to any rights his father had in Galloway proper. In 1187 Roland showed his fidelity and generalship by leading a force against and capturing the northern freebooter Donald MacWilliam, called also Donald Bane. He also presided in a court at Lanark, where the judges of Galloway decided in favour of the Kings right to enforce payment of his "can" in that territory. He is named as Justiciar and also as Constable 1189-1198, and he did not nrglrct the Church, as he founded the Abbey of Glenlude in 1190, besides granting other privileges. The last public act of Roland was accompany his master to Lincoln, where on 22.11.1200 King William swore fealty to King John for his English fiefs. After the ceremony Roland proceeded further south to Northampton, where he was then interested in a question as to part of his wifes property, and there died on 19.12.1200 and was buried in the Abbey of St.Andrew there. (SP osa?.s.138-139).

Vanhemmat Uchtred Lord of Galloway, s. 1100 Wigtown, Galloway, Scotland, k. 22.9. 1174 murdered ja Gunnild of Dunbar, s. 1134 Allerdale, Dunbar, Scotland, k. 1174

Puoliso: Elena de Morville. (Taulu 248) , s. 1165 Kirkoswald, Cumberland, England, k. 11.6. 1217.
Elena, called also Eva and Hellaria, daughter of Richard and sister of William de Morville, and heiress of both, and through her acquired, at Williams death in 1196, the extensive estates of the Morvilles, and the office of Constable of Scotland, for all which he paid to the exchequer the large relief duty of 700 marks of silver. Elena survived her husband, and appears in various transactions concerning her property up to 11.6.1217, when she died. (SP osa?.s.139).

Vanhemmat Richard de Morville ja Avicia de Lancaster

Lapset:
1. Alan Lord of Galloway, s. 1180. Tauluun 248

2. Devorguilla of Galloway

John Balliol, (Taulusta 255) . died bef. 24.10.1268. (ES NF/II Tafel 91) .
Vanhemmat Hugh Baliol, (de Bailleul) ja Cecilia de Fontaines (Taulusta 255)

Puoliso: abt. 1233 Devorguilla of Galloway. (Taulu 248) , s. c.1218, k. 1289/90.
Vanhemmat Alan Lord of Galloway, s. 1180 Runnemede, Scotland, k. 1233/34 ja Margaret of Huntingdon, s. c.1194, k. 1228 (Taulusta 248)

Lapset:
1. Sir Hugh Balliol, k. abt. 1271

2. Alan Balliol

3. Alexander Balliol, k. 1278

4. John Balliol King of Scotland, k. 4.1315

5. Ada de Baliol

6. Cecila de Balliol

7. Euphemia de Balliol. Tauluun 251

8. Alianora (Margaret) Balliol

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 255

XXIII Hugh Baliol , (de Bailleul). (ES NF/II Tafel 91).

Puoliso: Cecilia de Fontaines. (Taulu 254) .

Lapset:
1. John Balliol.

William I (The Lion) King of Scotland, (Taulusta 143) , s. 1143, k. 4.12. 1214.

Henry 2nd Earl of Huntingdon, s. 1114, k. 12.6. 1152 ja Adelaide de Warenne, k. 1178 (Taulusta 143)

1. puoliso: 5.9. 1186 Woodstock Ermengarde of Beaumont k. 11.2. 1233.
Vanhemmat Richard I Vicomte v Beaumont, k. aft. 1194 ja N. de l'Aigle

Lapset:
1. Alexander II King of Scotland, s. 24.8. 1198, k. 8.7. 1249

2. Margaret of Scotland, k. 1259

3. Isabella of Scotland, k. aft. 1253

4. Marjorie (Margaret) of Scotland, k. 17.11. 1244

2. vihkimättä: Daughter de Hythus .
Vanhemmat Adam de Hythus

Lapset:
5. Margaret of Scotland, k. aft. 1226

3. vihkimättä: Daughter Avenal. (Taulu 265) .
Vanhemmat Robert Avenal (Taulusta 269)

Lapset:
6. Robert de London

7. Henry Galightly

8. Isabella of Scotland

9. Ada of Scotland. Tauluun 265

10. Aufrica of Scotland

Robert Avenal .

Lapset:
1. Daughter Avenal.

Sir John (of Bonkyl) Stewart, (Taulusta 132) , s. 1246, k. 22.7. 1298 Battle of Falkirk.
Vanhemmat Alexander (4. High Steward of Scotland) Stewart, s. 1214, k. 1283 ja Jean (of Bute) Macrory (Taulusta 132)

Puoliso: Margaret Bonkyl. (Taulu 271) , s. abt. 1249.

Lapset:
1. Sir Alexander (of Bonkyl) Stewart, k. 1319

2. Sir Alan of Dreghorn Stewart, k. 1333 Halidon Hill

3. Sir Walter of Dalswinton Stewart

4. Sir James of Periston Stewart, k. 1333 Battle of Halidon hill

5. Sir John Stewart, k. 1333 Battle of Halidon hill

6. Sir Robert of Daldowie Stewart

7. Isabel (of Bonkyl) Stewart.

Freskin (1st Laird of Straloch) le Chen, (Taulusta 285) , s. abt. 1271.
Vanhemmat Sir Reginald (3rd of Inverugie) le Chen ja Mary (of Druffus) de Moravia, s. abt. 1245 (Taulusta 285)

Puoliso: Isabel Comyn. (Taulu 274) .

Lapset:
1. Christian Cheyne. Tauluun 274

2. Sir Henry (2nd of Straloch) le Chen, s. abt. 1300, k. aft. 1376

3. Reginald (3rd of Straloch) Chene, s. abt. 1300

4. Francis le Chen, s. abt. 1300

Sir Reginald (3rd of Inverugie) le Chen, (Taulusta 286) .
Vanhemmat Sir Reginald (2nr of Inverugie) le Chen ja N.N. Comyn (Taulusta 286)

Puoliso: Mary (of Druffus) de Moravia. (Taulu 284) , s. abt. 1245.
Vanhemmat Freskin (3rd of Druffus) de Moravia (Taulusta 287)

Lapset:
1. Reginald (4th of Inverugie) le Cheyne, s. abt. 1270, k. aft. 1345

2. Freskin (1st Laird of Straloch) le Chen, s. abt.1271. Tauluun 284

3. Elena le Cheyne, s. abt. 1272

4. Beatrix Chen

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 286

XXI Sir Reginald (2nr of Inverugie) le Chen .

Puoliso: N.N. Comyn. (Taulu 285) .

Lapset:
1. Sir Reginald (3rd of Inverugie) le Chen. Tauluun 285

| Alku | Sukunimi-hakemisto |
Taulu 287

XXI Freskin (3rd of Druffus) de Moravia .

Lapset:
1. Mary (of Druffus) de Moravia, s. abt.1245.

http://koti.phnet.fi/ossian/ancherus.htm

Just for he record I should note that the late Mrs Lesley Gordon who was an assiduous researcher into the Caldwell surname spent a great deal of time translating old wills and made other detailed researching to he extent that she produced a large number of charts of family trees mainly from around the Lochwinnoch area. They are too hard to reproduce here but some day I hope to enter the data into a gedcom file and make it available for research.

She states that the earliest mention of a Caldwell was as follows:

"The first mention appears in the Maitland Club papers (1882) no christian name is given just the fact that there is an entry 'MONESTUM de PASSELAT 1292 CALDWELL'. There are probably other monastery entries PAISLEY & KILWINNING but this has not been researched. The first definite name to emerge is a knight who appears in a list who came to Scotland in the train of de Morville c1127 possibly the knight who got the Beith lands."

Mrs Gordon also mentioned:

"PATRICK ? Kinsman of WILLIAM probably brother from whom descended the CALDWELLS of that ILK, 'Gudemen of Caldwell'. He only inherited, besides the title, a small part of the estate 'Nedder or Little Caldwell or Hall of Little Caldwell".

Consequently if this is true we are more likely to have been descended from this Patrick (or Peter) than the William oft claimed on genealogy sites. Personally I don't hold with the theory of a single source for the family name.

I have also been interested in the stories about the Albigensian Crusades but unlike many who simply parrot the legend of the "French Origin" without any comprehension of what the Albigensian Crusades were all about I have actually bought two books on the subject and read them.

They are an interesting read. But that is what I did - I read them as stories and not as a scholar. I need to go back to the books and re-read them taking notes.

Furthermore if you feed in various search criteria including Albigensian and Waldensian you will find that there is a lot of information on the subject on the 'web', much of it in French. Thanks to the "translator" we can get the gist of what it is about, but a fluent French speaking person would obviously do better.

The time of the Albigensians runs from about 1194-1229 when the Albigensians of the Languedoc were finally crushed then there was a long period of the Inquisition that set about rooting out the remaining Cathar "heretics".

Simon de Montfort was the strong man of the Albigensian Crusade and his family were involved heavily. One of his sons, another Simon, came over to England and managed to acquire the Earldom of Leicester to which his mother, being the sister of the late earl, had a claim. Not content this Simon then managed to marry the widowed sister of the then English King Henry III. From 1248-1253 he acted as governor of Gascony but acquired a reputation for tyranny this led to a quarrel with the King and he spent more time in France.

The history thereafter is a bit ocnfused and would take more telling than I would like to spend at this point but ultimately Simon de Montfort was victorious at the head of a confederate army of barons who defeated the King and his son the future Edward I at Lewes in 1264. His "rule" during which he attempted to refirm the role of parliament did not last long and he was shrtly afterwards defeated and kileld at Evesham. Prince Edward went on a Crusade in 1270 and was away when his father died. Notwithstanding this fact he took his time coming back and dallied for some time in France before returning to England.

Of course this is the same Edward who reduced Wales to vassalage and become known as the "Hammer of the Scots".

What we have to remember is that the English were still very much in possession of the Bordeaux and Gascony regions at about that time.

The English Caldwell family has a tradition of being involved in the crusades, they also allude to some as yet unknown Scots connection: "they went to Scotland and then returned". At least one of the English family shields has a "cross pattee fitche" on it. This was apparetnly known as the "Cross de Maltho Caldwell" and strongly suggests a connection to the Knights Hospitaller.

"The Knights Hospitaller (the Order of Knights of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem or Knights of Malta or Knights of Rhodes) is a tradition which began as a Benedictine nursing Order founded in the 11th century based in the Holy Land, but soon became a militant Christian Chivalric Order under its own charter, and was charged with the care and defence of pilgrims. Following the loss of Christian territory in the Holy Land, the Order operated from Rhodes, of which it was sovereign, and later from Malta as a vassal state under the King of Sicily. The mediæval Order can be said to have come to an end following its ejection from Malta by Napoleon." (Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_St._John

The Cathars of the Languedoc were crudely and brutally treated and it is not beyond possibility, in fact I think it is very likely, that refugees from the oppression of the Cathars moved Westwards into English controlled Gascony. They would have found that only a generation later that Gascony would be cruelly administered by the son of their previous tormentor. It would only be natural if they supported his enemy Edward I the crusader.

Perhaps the origins of the Huguenot persuasion can be found in the belief of the Albigensian Cathars. I have not researched this enough to know for sure.

Whatever there is a clear path for the transmission of belief and peoples through from the Languedoc to England. Furthermore there has always been a very strong trade in wine from Bordeuax to the West Coast of Scotland.

Perhaps there is more in the fanciful legend that just the embroidery.

For reference I can recommend the following books in respect of the Albigensian Crusades:

"The Albigensian Crusade" by Jonathan Sumption [Faber & Faber] paperback edition 1999 ISBN 0-571-20002-8

"The Albigensian Crusades" by Joseph R Strayer [Ann Arbor Paperbacks] 1992 ISBN 0-472-06476-2

Both texts cite many references but most are in French

I have another book that I have not fully read:

"Simon de Montfort" by JR Maddicott [Cambridge] reprinted 2001 ISBN 0-521-37493-6

This is a useful text for further clues

I have yet another that I have only browsed to date:

"France in the Middle Ages 987-1460 by Georges Duby (translated by Juliet Vale) [Blackwell] reprinted 2000 ISBN 0-631-18945-9

No Caldwells are mentioned. Consequently one can only deduce whatever might be gleaned by historical inference.

When I absorb these works in a more scholarly manner I may be in a position to comment with some authority on the likely political background that might have brought any Caldwells to Scotland.

At the moment my best guess is that the vast bulk of the everyday Caldwells of Ayrshire were just the Gald-wallys or the lowland welsh who were thus differentiated for the incoming Anglian settler of the lowlands. Perhaps we represent the native peoples of Strathclyde and are not interlopers after all.

This is my personal current theory and I will be more than happy to be proved wrong.

Lets put this "named after the place" to rest. I have made a rough survey of property names surrounding the property named Caldwell in Scotland. If we are "named after the place" there should be lots of families of similar size in the world named after their place of origin - if it was the thing to do around Caldwell then lets see what other names we should be finding:

Biggart
Fullhead
Threepwood
Hazlehead
Fulwoodhead
Barkwood
Trearne
Broadstone
Middleton
Highgate
Bowfield
Lochside
Elliotston
Cowden
Glanderston
Arthurlie
Hawkhead
Dunlop (now that one is an exception!)
Robertland
Polkelly

I could go on but it would get boring - point is that family names coming from the name of properties is more the exception than the rule. I think it is more than likely that Caldwell as a name is associated with a branch of the Caldwell family but it may have been named after a branch of the family rather than the other way around. That would allow the family to be larger and not necessarily derived from the location of the property.

It appears that of all the property names listed there are only a few where the family might have taken their name from the name of the property itself.

Caldwell as we know is more an "estate" rather than a village and although there would be tenants on farms and servants and support workers around the great house it wasn't a village or hamlet. The closest hamlet was Lugton and the world does not seem to have many person's of the familes of Lugg or Lugton.

We also know that the property was in the Mure family hands from some time in the 1300's. Significantly there is no property known as "Mure" (but their are many *** Muir's - all over Scotland). The Mure's themselves originally held the property of Polkelly but they are not named "Polkelly" nor has the surname Polkelly been adopted as a widely dispersed name.

Dunlop is the name of a property that was held by the Dunlop family, but there is also an associated village of Dunlop. Furthermore even though we have a property and associated village the distribution of Dunlop's in the world seems much less than that of Caldwell. The Dunlop family technically had a bigger base to start from and yet seems to have a lower proliferation.

None of this is rigorous proof and it is only an idea that someone may like to follow or otherwise investigate further.

My only comment is that it seems that families named after properties seem more the exception rather than the rule in this area. Even familes named after villages are rare and almost non-existent. In England it is more common but we are talking ancient Strathclyde here.

When you look around looking for common area-derived names "Cunningham" springs to mind. "Ah-ha" he says 'Cunningham' is the district name for a part of north Ayrshire, and Cunningham is seemingly a bit more common than Caldwell".

We have a ouple of clues worth following:

Monestum de Passelat speaks of "terra de Caldwell" - land of Caldwell and one of the heraldry sites says casually that "Caldwell means 'from Renfrew'".

I am now wondering if the whole district of Renfrew might at one time have been know as Galdwalys or the land of the lowland welsh. Perhaps it was only part of Renfrew that was so designated. We might have become blinded by the fact that a generic district name became localised in one particular property (that covered much of it).

Renfrew seems named after the town of Renfrew as much as Ayrshire came from Ayr, but Ayrshire is divided into known districts: Cunningham, Kyle Stewart, King's Kyle and Carrick. It is possible that Renfrew once had similar divisions into districts - I know even now that part of Renfrew was known as Gryfesdale.

"Cunningham" of course means "King's Home", and the king's of Cunningham probably came from Dalry.

This note has been brought about by my curiosity over the following entry in "A Complete Guide to Heraldry" by AC Fox-Davies Bonanza 1978 reprint of original published in 1909:

Page 475

"James I, on his Great Seal had the banners of Cadwallader (azure, a cross patte fitche or) and King Edgar (azure, a cross patonce between four martlets or)"

Being Scots I have assumed right up to this very moment that Fox-Davies was talking about James I of Scotland and not James VI of Scotland and I of England. I am not sure any more whether he might have been talking about the latter as the English (sorry) are often a bit high-handed about distinguishing "their" two James' from the Scots first two James' and therefore confusing the heck out of poor Scots. As far as the Enlish are concenred the first five Scots James' didn't exist. However Fox-Davies was a learned heraldic scholar and one might think that he would take the trouble to difference the James'. However his next sentence blythely chats on about the Great Seal of Charles I, so I think I might have been labouring under a misapprehension.

If it were James I of Scotland then it was a bit exciting: the Cross of Cadwallader is very much part of the English Caldwell family heraldry. The Cadwallader name may or may not be connected to King Arthur and even if not Cadwallader has a reputation far beyond his exploits handed down by the chronicles. There are many other ancient British Kings who are just as worthy to be remembered as battle-leader's and it is a bit strange why Cadwallader is a bit ahead of the rest. Perhaps it was because there were at least three of them and a Cadwallon to boot :)

Never mind - it is still interesting to find out just why either James would put the flags of Cadwallader and Edgar on his Great Seal. If it is James VI and I then the most logical explanation would be that it signified the union of the nation of the warrior celtic hero Cadwallader with those representing the peaceful lawmaker Saxon King Edgar. Bear in mind that if this is the English Great Seal of James VI and I that we are talking about then there would have been a Scottish Great Seal as well. The seal would therefore be all English/Welsh allusion as it applied to the mighty King James I (ta-rah!). Consequently there was no need to stick anything it it that could be construed "Scots".

I have found it hard to find a facsimile image of this Great Seal on the 'web. I would be grateful if anyone else could help here as it would be nice to confirm the actual provenance of the seal mentioned.

I have also found it hard to source who actually owned the arms as described. Very likely they were directly owned by the King himself.

I have found out some tit-bits any they are listed below:

University College, Oxford University: College arms: "Azure, a cross patonce between five martlets or"

St Edmund Hall, Oxford University: College Arms: "Or, a cross patonce gules cantoned by four Cornish choughs proper"

'WOOD'S LIFE & TIMES'
Extracts from Anthony Wood's diaries pertaining to Cumnor.

A VISIT TO CUMNOR
M. 4 October 1658
Comenore... The church is dedicated to St Michael; the north isle to St Thomas;
the south side (the upper part) to St Katherine......... At the west end of the
church is the ruins of a mannor house, antiently belonging as a cell or place
of removall (as some say) to the monkes of Abington. At the dissolution the
said mannor or lordship was conveyed to one Owen ...... In the hall, over the
chymney, I find Abingdon armes cut in stone, viz. a cross patonce inter 4
martletts, and alsoe another escotcheon viz. a lyon rampant; and several
mitres cutt in stone about the house.

http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/external/cumnor/articles/woods-diaries.htm

Philip de Colevile
Argent a cross patonce gules

Philip de Coleville, who also appears in St George's Roll, E550

Tom's Note: This may be the same Philip Colville who was granted lands at Ochiltree in Ayrshire that eventually ended up in Stewart hands.

William de Bourt
Sable a cross patonce argent

William de Bourt, who also appears in St George's Roll, E599

Tom's Note: Who he is I have no idea, but the device is similar so I chucked it in just in case it means something and perhaps someone else can elucidate.

http://www.briantimms.com/rolls/charlesF05.htm

Le Roy Edouart

dasur a une croix dor flourees a v merlectes de meismes
Azure a cross patonce between four martlets or

Edward the Confessor King of England

The attributed arms also appear in D17. Da shows the birds with beaks and feet, while other versions show martlets, reinforcing the idea that martlets are simply the result of artisitic error.
VE gives five martlets.

Looks like I have sorted this out - Fox-Davies ives a "bum steer" by talking about "Edgar" - its the armorial shield of "Edward the Confessor"!

Thanks to a bit of searching and this site :)

http://www.briantimms.com/vermandois/rois01.htm

.... and now for Cadwallader ....

This is the Arms of the Cadwallader family and very similar to the arms of an English Caldwell family from Rolleston near Burton on Trent pre 1554: Azure, a cross patee fitche argent between an orle of eight estoilles or. Crest: a cockerel's head with wings erect or holding in its beak a cross of the same.

I am indebted to Maurice R Smith of New Zealand for this information sent in 1981 in memory of his wife who was a Caldwell descended from this family.

All these genealogical hunts go through various processes. For quite a few years I thought I might have been on to something in Fox-Davies remark. I took the reference to be James I of Scotland and this would have made it fairly close to the times when the Caldwell's were something approaching importance in Scotland and James I's grandmother was a Mure, who in turn probably had connections to Caldwell's. The Caldwell's seem to have been vassals of some sort of the Stewart family and James I of Scotland was very much still an early Stewart. He stopped living at Dundonald, but his father and grandfather had their royal seat there. Consequently if there was a "last chance" that there might have been a Caldwell connection there then this "Seal" reference might have been "it". The Cadwallader connection through to the English Caldwell family may have meant that the Caldwell's were closer to the Stewarts than we have ever been able to prove. Furthermore Robert II and his first wife, Elizabeth Mure, had to get a special dispensation to legitmise their marriage because it was within "precribed degrees" - this may have meant that they were cousins. The fact that they had a few children before they married was another factor complicating their relationship. As was the enormous number of children that Robert II had (19?) both in and out of wedlock and with a number of women. They said he was a poor king, but that was probably because he was too busy elsewhere. He didn't come to the throne until late in life so perhaps he was worn out.

With that number of children and miscellaneous mothers I wouldn't be surprised to find hat there was not some sort of relationship there.

The disappontment came when I suddenly realised that Fox-Davies was most likely talking about James VI & I. New ball game. This James is a good few generations down the track and any possible Caldwell relationships around the Bruce-early Stewart times would have been long-since diluted by dynastic marriages. Drats! Finding that it was Edward the Confessor and Cadwallader we were talking about it is easy to see that the seal merely mean't that James was "sort of" descended from and early British warlord and a Saxon saint. ie: he would uphold the rights of the nation both in war and in religion and govern wisely. Nice allusions, but I fear that is all that they were. Pity, it was a good yarn for a while :)

14 January 2006

The seal was of James I of England and VI of Scotland - I wish those south of the border would be more precise:

"Union and absentee kingship (1603-25)

After 1603 new emblems of a British identity were created: a wave of British histories, seals, flags, and coinage engulfed James's subjects on both sides of the Border. No detail was too small to be overlooked; a new design for the King's Great Seal conjoined not only the English and Scottish arms but also those of Cadwallader and Edward the Confessor, respectively the last undisputed kings of Celtic Britain and Anglo-Saxon England."

Reference: Scotland - A new history, by Michale lynch [Pimlico 1992] ISBN 0-7126-9893-0 Page239

James possibly could trace his descent from both, even though Cadwallader might have been harder. The reference must be treated as allegorical all the same.

Nevertheless we still have the Cross of Cadwallader as the arms of an English Caldwell family at one time referring to welsh-celtic and the possible similarity of the name.

The Cadwallader arms and the English Caldwell arms are possibly nothing more than a co-incidence.

Now this Philip Colville thing ..... :) There are plenty of rainbows to chase in genealogy.

Caldwell

The name Caldwell in Ireland is usually of Anglo origin having been brought to the country by settlers in the seventeenth century. It was also sometimes adopted by the native Gaelic O'hUarghuis Sept of County Tyrone and by the MacConluain Sept of County Cavan.

http://www.irishsurnames.com/cgi-bin/gallery.pl?name=caldwell&capname=Caldwell&letter=c&user=ISNS&item=ss

"Caldwell is an ancient Scottish name that was first used by the Strathclyde-Briton people of the Scottish/English Borderlands. It is a name for someone who lived in Renfrewshire."

http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.c/qx/caldwell-coat-arms.htm

hi-ho, hi-ho - this is the first time I have seen this written independently of my thoughts!

Wonder where this little gem originally came from?

ARMS of James Stamford Caldwell
1787-1858
of Linley Wood, Talke, Staffordshire, England

Arms. Quarterly: 1st and 4th, per pale, sa. and vert, a stag's head, couped, arg.; in chief, three cold wells, ppr., for Caldwell; 2nd and 3rd, arg, two bars, az.; on a canton, gu., a gauntle, grasping a broken sword, ppr., hilt and pommel, gold for Stamford.
Crest. A lion, couchant, arg., gorged with two bars, the upper, sa., the lower vert, holding between the paws a cold well, ppr.
Motto. Niti Facere Experiri (Trusted to act with experience).

http://www.jjhc.info/caldwellstamford1858arms.htm

List of Lord Chancellors of Scotland
William Comyn (1133-1142)
William de Malvoisin, Bishop of Glasgow, St Andrew's (1199-1211)
Robert Kenleith, Abbot of Dunfermline (1249-1251)
Gamelin, Bishop of St Andrew’s (1251-1255)
Archibald, Bishop of Moray (1255)
Richard of Inverkeithing, Bishop of Dunkeld (1255-1257)
William Wishart, Bishop of Glasgow (1257-1274)
William Fraser, Bishop of St Andrew’s (1275-1282)
Alan of St Edmund, Bishop of Caithness (1282-1285)
Thomas Charteris (1285-1289)

Thomas of Hunsingore (1291-1295) [Barrow]
Alexander Kennedy (1296- ) [Barrow]
Nicholas Balmyle (1301- ) Bishop of Dunblane (1307-1319 died in office) [Barrow] (Also known as "Master Nicholas of St Andrews")
Bernard de Linton, Abbot of Arbroath (1308-1328) (Also known as Abbot of Kilwinning, Bishop of Sodor & Man 1328-1331)

Walter of Galloway (Twynholm)(1326 after Bernard - ) [Barrow] (Was Chancellor at treaty of Corbeil April 1326)

William Brisbane 1332 [?]

Thomas de Charteris (1342-1346)
William Caldwell (1349-1354) (or 1350-1352?)

William Lauder, Bishop of Glasgow (1423-1427)
John Cameron, Bishop of Glasgow (1427-1439)
Sir William Crichton (1439-1444)
James Kennedy, Bishop of St Andrew's (1444)
James Bruce, Bishop of Dunkeld (1444-1449)
Sir William Crichton (1449-1454)
William Sinclair, 3rd Earl of Orkney (1454-1456)
Andrew Stewart, 1st Lord Avandale (1460-1482)
Colin Campbell, 1st Earl of Argyll (1483-1488)
William Elphinstone, Bishop of Aberdeen (1488)
Colin Campbell, 1st Earl of Argyll (1488-1493)
Archibald Douglas, 5th Earl of Angus (1493-1498)
George Gordon, 2nd Earl of Huntly (1498-1501)
James Stewart, Duke of Ross, Archbishop of St Andrew's (1502-1504)
Vacant
Alexander Stewart, Archbishop of St Andrew's (1510-1513)
James Beaton, Archbishop of Glasgow, St Andrew's (1513-1526)
Archibald Douglas, 6th Earl of Angus (1526-1528)
Gavin Dunbar, Archbishop of Glasgow (1528-1542)
Cardinal David Beaton, Archbishop of St Andrew's (1543-1546)
George Gordon, 4th Earl of Huntly (1546-1562)
James Douglas, 4th Earl of Morton (1563-1566)
George Gordon, 5th Earl of Huntly (1566-1567)
James Douglas, 4th Earl of Morton (1567-1572)
Archibald Campbell, 5th Earl of Argyll (1572-1573)
John Lyon, 8th Lord Glamis (1573-1578)
John Stewart, 4th Earl of Atholl (1578-1579)
Colin Campbell, 6th Earl of Argyll (1579-1584)
James Stewart, Earl of Arran (1584-1585)
incomplete 1585-1587
Sir John Maitland (1587-1595)
incomplete 1595-1598
John Graham, 3rd Earl of Montrose (1598-1604)
Alexander Seton, 1st Earl of Dunfermline (1604-1622)
George Hay, 1st Earl of Kinnoull (1622-1634)
John Spottiswoode, Archbishop of St Andrews (1635-1638)
incomplete 1638-1641
John Campbell, 1st Earl of Loudoun (1641-1661)
William Cunningham, 9th Earl of Glencairn (1661-1664)
incomplete 1664-1667
John Leslie, 1st Duke of Rothes (1667-1681)
George Gordon, 1st Earl of Aberdeen (1682-1684)
James Drummond, 4th Earl of Perth (1684-1688)
John Hay, 1st Marquess of Tweeddale (1692-1696)
Patrick Hume, 1st Earl of Marchmont (1696-1702)
James Ogilvy, 1st Earl of Seafield(1702-1704)
John Hay, 2nd Marquess of Tweeddale (1704-1705)
James Ogilvy, 1st Earl of Seafield (1705-1708)

Source: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia © 2001-2005

This list is from Wikipedia and I do think I can add to it - I am posting it for the purposes of research to show where William Caldwell fits into the list of Scotish Chancellors - I have some more information from GWS Barrow that may expand this list during the critical period of history.

Note that Chancellor Caldwell was in office about the time of the Black Death in Scotland and also during the reign of David II.

I chucked a little tantrum over having to wait patiently whilst some other fellow who had followed me into the shop but got the "boss'" ear and proceded to inspect about every spotting scope in the shop then left without buying.

Of course the assitant was not allowed to discount such precious material as I was looking at. The other fellow yacked on and on for about 45 minutes and then I did the deal in 5 minutes. I am an amiable person but I do get tense when tyre kickers tie up a shop and I am cooling my heels and in a hurry.

I know that it makes common sense to be polite with all customers, but being made to wait when you are a qualified serious buyer can be most irritating. There should be a special discount card for those that know what they want and don't waste assistants time. I suppose that is why internet discounters can stay in business - generally they don't have to put up with endless streams of those that still don't know what a megapixel is and have to have every "feature" explained to them.

Later ...

I don't set myself up as being especially important, I am a "common man" but I do get testy waiting especially when the guy I need to see is being held up by a time-wasting tyre-kicker. Boss-cocky at this dealership will not let his staff discount - so if you want to "deal" you have to see him. I am at odds - I believe in commercial courtesy but perhaps boss-cocky could have passed this guy on to another assistant to show him the ropes of all the spotting scopes when the assitant whispered that he needed to talk to me and saw me standing there.

All the more infuriating when the guy had arrived after me and sort of collared boss-cocky when I was making preliminary small talk with his assistant.

This is the second time this has happened: the last time I arrived simultaneously with another (obvious holidaymaker) and his wife in relaxed mode (I was a busy working man). When boss-cocky saw me he made a bee-line for me but "obviously holidaymaker" stepped up and said "I am here FIRST and I AM HERE to BUY a camera" (his emphasis). It didn't help that it was a saturday morning and I had come in on my motorbike and was dressed in leather jacket and carrying helmet. HE was in his best floral holiday shirt and VERY important! (Much more important than the biker who has more gear than the shop carries in stock). Being a polite sort of fellow I demurred .... (perhaps I should have said: "how much are you going to spend and how long will it take to spend it?").

Over an hour later and champing at the bit I was finally served. This obnoxious obviously holidaymaker had no idea what digital cameras were all about and had every camera in the showcase out like boxes in a shoe-shop. He had to have every microscopic detail explained to him from "where is the shutter?" down. He bought one eventually, but was in no hurry and haggled his discount .... I supposed it filled in his time on his wonderful holiday. I was not impressed. My purchase took 10 minutes and was worth 3 times his point and shoot.

Suppose it is no wonder I am starting to give the local shops a miss and buy direct - its cheaper that way and only just a little bit slower.

As far as I know the battery packs are still like hens teeth and twice as dear ....

I usually have an adverse reaction after buying some wunder-kind new piece of equipment and finding that it take a little while to master.

I thought I might just use the Metz slave flash to light up a scene then quickly remembered the 5D had no on-board flash to trigger it - bummer. I had sort of got used to setting the onboard flash to its lowest setting and merely using it as a trigger for the remote slave Metz. All simple and effective and no screwing and unscrewing etc.

I also messed up switching the 5D off the first time and one click up isn't off - is it?

The controls are very similar to the 10D and no doubt even closer to the 20D. So switching between the cameras is a "doddle". The bulk seems less due to the fact that the new-cam doesn't yet have a battery pack, so at the moment the 5D is a real flyweight by comparison.

Perhaps my technique is not good enough and I need the benefit of lower resolution as at the moment my FZ30 images suit me better than the 10D and so far the 5D has not eclipsed what I can do with the 10D.

and onwards ...

Had the 5D since last Saturday and have not really had a chance to take it for an outing. I have deleted almost all the images I have taken and have been quite disappointed so far. Only been taking duff shots of course so I shouldn't be expecting miracles.

Maybe the camera is faulty, most likely it is the photographer. Am looking forward to a bit of spare time so I can test it properly.

Later ....

I started on jpg and deleted most as duds thinking that the weather, poor light, lack of time had made them pretty ordinary. On Thursday it was wet and overcast but I had the day off so I managed to take some open air shots - they were better but I still didn't like them and almost wished I had brought my 10D along as a reference camera.

Then I took a couple of quick snapshots in raw and processed them with the supplied software - they were pretty good and the best I have so far form the new 14mm f2.8 - So raw is the go!

I got on to the dpreview site and asked a few questions - it seems that I am not the only one not satisfied with the jpg file performance. One thread though was dominated by what often happens on that site and not one of its nicest features: "If you buy an expensive camera like that you should only shoot raw so why worry if jpg is no good?" The worries of poor jpg perfomance are dismissed as being in the class: "real photographers only shot raw anyway".

Not furthering the debate much and no help whatsoever for this poor mortal who has been known to backslide from time to time into the iniquities of (ssssh ... jpg format).

Another thread was more sympathetic and the general consensus was that we all might have to fiddle around with the picture styles until we found one satisfactory. Please pardon me Mr Canon but isn't there something wrong when your users cannot get really good images with the standard settings? Do we pay all this moolah for an upmarket camera that will not produce stunning jpg out of the box?

I can accept that if you want la creme de la creme then you might really use raw - but Canon obviously intend to have a good deal of their target audience use jpg why otherwise would they put 6 different jpg size settings in their menu and fortify this with a trillion permutations of setting in their Picture Style modes?

The effect has been described sympathetically as "film like", generally soft and grainy. My beloved 85mm f1.2 runs very narrow dof indeed thereby losing much of the advantage of the large aperture and I am not happy with the gamut of colours captured.

I was starting to wonder if there was something wrong with it until it produced some raw images "to die for" from a simple "snapshot" technique.

Will go out and give it an exercise in raw tomorrow, then try a few more jpg just to see if it is "just me" or "the camera".

Later still ...

Starting to get the "fix" on the pesky "Picture Styles" on the 5D. Canon pretty well decided to hand some ready-made styles to the user - nice perhaps to have an in-camera monochrome b+w with variations just in case you don't have some software with a desaturation tool. They also thought it would be nice to have all sorts of other presets and apparently there are more on the way.

They have a "nice" little print button on the camera so that you can print directly. All seems to be at the moronic-user level for such an expensive body! Even the pre-10D models don't have these "kiddy" touches - and I am supposing they are also lacking on the 20D and the 350D.

So what were they smoking when they dreamed this nonsense up?

If you are a big-boy and shoot raw then you can use their "Digital Photo Professional" software to make some nice touches that include emulating their in camera picture style presets. Their presets are fair enough when you start from raw and you can try them all non-destructively - it also gives you some powerful "levels" tools to adjust the image - nice software and it works well.

The bother starts when you shoot jpg with their standard setting - I don't like the result ex-camera and my software sort of tolerates it but it is stuck to a certain level by what the camera "gives" it and of course further editing tends to degrade the jpg image (we all know this).

Furthermore "Digital Photo Professional" is not nearly as helpful with a jpg image. Firstly you are stuck with the levels adjustments and you can make no changes under the raw tab (fairly logically) - the main point is that whatever Picture Style you shot with you have "got". No changing styles here non-destructively as with raw images - if you got it wrong when you clicked you have got it wrong baby! (Excuse the mangled English).

Jpg are still useful to me and the only way I think I can get round this is to shoot in neutral and do any adjustments in my favourite independent software.

This sort of in-camera "baby-help" should stay with the point-n-shoots. I still can't understand why Canon are bringing point-n-shoot "features" to a semi-pro camera. The marketing guys must have won an arm-wrestle with the technical department.

Of course I am probably regarded as a bit of a point-n-shoot myself because I even dare think of taking ANY jpg images.

Geroff - I have some nice homey jpg's, and I will some nicer ones when I apply some fancy "Picture Styles" right in my camera and print them using my dedicated print button :)

How about soome in-camera cropping Mr Canon - the 6D will do ... and perhaps a polaroid snap that comes out the top of the camera when you press a button ...

Personally I wish they had spent the research dollar that brought this about on an image stabilised sensor - now that would be an achievement - make all my EOS lenses stabilised!

The common to FZ1-FZ5-FZ20 batteries fit and work in the FZ30 despite being a slightly smaller size and slightly lower capacity (not much lower) So I can have spare batteries for the FZ30 out of my existing stock of batteries. As someone else on the net said "why bother" getting a new stock of batteries that will not retrofit when the old batteries work in the new gear?

The "old" charger fits and charges the "new" battery shape :)

Panasonic made a real clunker there - I don't know what they were thinking (Perhaps AUD$119 RRP for spare batteries :) One of my attractions to Canon gear is that from the Pro90 right through to the 5D I can draw on the same battery stock - even after being careful with what I buy I have a whole battery of chargers sitting in a "taxi-rank" in the study. Gerroff! There needs to be a "law" that makes these manufacturers have some sort of battery commonality. Most manufacturers have batteries in equivalent class to their opposition but carefully change the contact points so that onlt "their" batteries fit! Nothing new in this - they have been playing the "lens-mount" game for "ever".

Tom